ALPA Drive 2.0
05-23-2019, 10:10 AM
#151
Prime Minister/Moderator
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,284
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
I don't see how. Many of us outside OO have experience with and without ALPA and can give real-world advantages and disadvantages. Heck, I would think you would WANT such opinions in order to make an informed decision.
Personally, I like having ALPA at my back. No one thinks anything will ever go sideways in their career. I had first-hand experience with a company that wanted to throw me under the FAA bus for their mistake. Fortunately, ALPA was there for me. Had I been at OO I think the outcome would have been very different.
Personally, I like having ALPA at my back. No one thinks anything will ever go sideways in their career. I had first-hand experience with a company that wanted to throw me under the FAA bus for their mistake. Fortunately, ALPA was there for me. Had I been at OO I think the outcome would have been very different.
At least 1/3 of the OO group came from other regionals, historically. May be changing now but there are still plenty of folks there who have that perspective.
05-23-2019, 11:07 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Flip side of that is pilots from union regionals know nothing about OO, other than what they were told about the bogeyman around the campfire on dark stormy nights.
At least 1/3 of the OO group came from other regionals, historically. May be changing now but there are still plenty of folks there who have that perspective.
At least 1/3 of the OO group came from other regionals, historically. May be changing now but there are still plenty of folks there who have that perspective.
05-23-2019, 01:30 PM
#153
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 59
Interesting to see in latest SAPA meeting notes they mention they suggest pilots should fly a reserve assignment - that they feel potentially may not be "legal" - and then file a complaint afterwards? I can't really understand that. Would it not be more prudent to refuse a reserve trip that may not be legal for you to work until you know it is indeed, legal? Am I misinterpreting what they are saying? I mean what good is it to know you illegally took and worked and assignment after the fact?
Disclaimer - I wouldn't be shocked if this old timer is misreading it!
Disclaimer - I wouldn't be shocked if this old timer is misreading it!
05-23-2019, 02:12 PM
#154
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by DirkDiggler
There's no way you could ever have a true rep if they are funded by management. I think your SAPA reps are scared. Once pilots start paying dues out of their own paychecks, they become much more vocal about the good or bad job a rep is doing and how their union dollars are being spent. If it's a free lunch, nobody cares if the food is crap.
Many SAPA reps are scared. Many of them are LCA’s and openly supporting ALPA would result in immediate removal from their standards position. Unfortunately there are many that would “rat” them out to get in the good graces of management. Are they being “strong armed”, damn right.
There’s a reason why there is so much emphasis and energy from the company to avoid our group from becoming ALPA. The mere idea of a level playing field scares them to death!
I want a level playing field, I want a real contract, I want true representation, and I want legal counsel with my best interests in mind.
None of this is available with SAPA!
05-23-2019, 03:14 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,481
Originally Posted by Check Complete
Many SAPA reps are scared. Many of them are LCA’s and openly supporting ALPA would result in immediate removal from their standards position. Unfortunately there are many that would “rat” them out to get in the good graces of management. Are they being “strong armed”, damn right.
There’s a reason why there is so much emphasis and energy from the company to avoid our group from becoming ALPA. The mere idea of a level playing field scares them to death!
I want a level playing field, I want a real contract, I want true representation, and I want legal counsel with my best interests in mind.
None of this is available with SAPA!
There’s a reason why there is so much emphasis and energy from the company to avoid our group from becoming ALPA. The mere idea of a level playing field scares them to death!
I want a level playing field, I want a real contract, I want true representation, and I want legal counsel with my best interests in mind.
None of this is available with SAPA!
05-23-2019, 03:38 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by Check Complete
Many SAPA reps are scared. Many of them are LCA’s and openly supporting ALPA would result in immediate removal from their standards position. Unfortunately there are many that would “rat” them out to get in the good graces of management. Are they being “strong armed”, damn right.
There’s a reason why there is so much emphasis and energy from the company to avoid our group from becoming ALPA. The mere idea of a level playing field scares them to death!
I want a level playing field, I want a real contract, I want true representation, and I want legal counsel with my best interests in mind.
None of this is available with SAPA!
There’s a reason why there is so much emphasis and energy from the company to avoid our group from becoming ALPA. The mere idea of a level playing field scares them to death!
I want a level playing field, I want a real contract, I want true representation, and I want legal counsel with my best interests in mind.
None of this is available with SAPA!
05-23-2019, 04:22 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by word302
They have all signed an agreement that they won't openly support a union. So the guys that are pro alpa have to keep their mouths shut while the anti union guys are free to spew whatever they want.
That sounds like a serious accusation. Who is the SAPA rep responsible to in their duties as reps if not the pilots they represent? Therefore, who are they pledging to when signing this alleged agreement?
05-23-2019, 04:27 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by thaddiusMbuggs
Interesting to see in latest SAPA meeting notes they mention they suggest pilots should fly a reserve assignment - that they feel potentially may not be "legal" - and then file a complaint afterwards? I can't really understand that. Would it not be more prudent to refuse a reserve trip that may not be legal for you to work until you know it is indeed, legal? Am I misinterpreting what they are saying? I mean what good is it to know you illegally took and worked and assignment after the fact?
Disclaimer - I wouldn't be shocked if this old timer is misreading it!
Disclaimer - I wouldn't be shocked if this old timer is misreading it!
You are required to decline any assignment that violates FARs. If you are referring to an assignment that doesn’t comply with your work rules, that’s completely up to the rules you have set up for grievances, whatever they may be. Under the RLA, if you cannot resolve the problem ahead of time, you are to fly now and grieve later.
05-23-2019, 06:52 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 131
Maybe some Sapa reps don't fully support ALPA because they know it's a joke at the regional level.
They want 2% of your 5,000 pilots' crappy pay.....crappy pay thanks in part to ALPA negotiated contracts at major airlines.....so you can file grievances and get the same sh#t sandwich you had before.
Don't fall for it. Sales tactics.
They want 2% of your 5,000 pilots' crappy pay.....crappy pay thanks in part to ALPA negotiated contracts at major airlines.....so you can file grievances and get the same sh#t sandwich you had before.
Don't fall for it. Sales tactics.
05-23-2019, 10:18 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
I respect your choice to go to work for a unionized pilot group; why can’t a healthy portion of the unionized pilot groups respect the choice of OO pilots to go to work in a non-union pilot group?
At the regional/FFD level, there are positives and negatives about being unionized - I hope we can all agree on that - and the fact that a choice exists is a great thing from my perspective.
At the regional/FFD level, there are positives and negatives about being unionized - I hope we can all agree on that - and the fact that a choice exists is a great thing from my perspective.
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
I don't see how. Many of us outside OO have experience with and without ALPA and can give real-world advantages and disadvantages. Heck, I would think you would WANT such opinions in order to make an informed decision.
Personally, I like having ALPA at my back. No one thinks anything will ever go sideways in their career. I had first-hand experience with a company that wanted to throw me under the FAA bus for their mistake. Fortunately, ALPA was there for me. Had I been at OO I think the outcome would have been very different.
Personally, I like having ALPA at my back. No one thinks anything will ever go sideways in their career. I had first-hand experience with a company that wanted to throw me under the FAA bus for their mistake. Fortunately, ALPA was there for me. Had I been at OO I think the outcome would have been very different.
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