UAL and Jumpseats
10-13-2019, 04:12 PM
#221
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by BusBoy88
You went on a long diatribe about the FOM and its jumpseat priorities and how you're worried about your certificate. Don't be such a moron......the FAA doesn't care about the priorities. Go ask your POI if you need to worry about a violation, he/she will probably laugh at you. Your FOM probably also says you have to show up 1 hour prior to departure. Do you think the FAA is going to violate you if you show up :59 minutes prior to departure. You're the FO every captain dreads flying with.
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
10-13-2019, 04:27 PM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by ICUROOK
So a pilot is supposed to violate their FOM because some joker on the internet (you) says it okay? Or should they follow their FOM and avoid any ambiguity whatsoever?
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
10-13-2019, 04:38 PM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by ICUROOK
So a pilot is supposed to violate their FOM because some joker on the internet (you) says it okay? Or should they follow their FOM and avoid any ambiguity whatsoever?
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
I think I'll choose the latter thank you very much
10-13-2019, 04:41 PM
#224
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by N1CEandEZ
I have called my SAPA representatives three times this weekend. Remember that this news came out on Friday so there has been practically little to no time for our pilot group to adequately respond to this. I know UAL / UAX guys are outraged about this but try not to so quickly judge every pilot here because there are a handful of us that are against this and many that plan to accept jumpseaters despite threats from SAPA.
It is extremely disheartening but I have already heard a couple of stories of UA guys who are literally going out of their way to find SKW guys at the airport and on the crew busses to tell them they either accept them on the jump and ignore SAPA or they will personally make it their business to derail future career prospects in response. Don't be that guy/gal. Leave it for behind the door with your FO or CP.
A majority of us truly don't like it anymore than you do.
And lastly just keep in mind that we are all going to have to play nice again when this is sorted out so can we all at least try to act professional?
10-13-2019, 04:46 PM
#225
Gets Rolled on the Reg.
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by Bravix
Their new priority isn't even similar to Delta/Endeavor. They (Delta/Endeavor) get priority on each others planes, just like SkyWest and Expressjet used to. What United is doing is making it so that a Expressjet jumpseater has priority on a SkyWest aircraft over a Republic guy, even if the Republic guy checked in first.
Endeavor purely feeds Delta therefore they are an exclusive carrier and they each have priority over their non-exclusive carriers.
That's exactly what the new UAL FOM states.
The truth is, SkyWest has been used to getting exclusive carrier benefits while they are not an exclusive carrier and that's being corrected.
SAPA is upset that their exclusive carrier perks are being removed even knowing they're not an exclusive carrier.
On another point, the threat of certificate action/violation for taking a UAL pilot is not true.
The failure to have an agreement is a failure to have a priority agreement, not an ability to jumpseat agreement.
So if a SkyWest pilot wanted to move UAL pilots to last priority until
a reciprocal agreement is agreed upon, I think that would be unfortunate but it could be argued.
To absolutely restrict UAL from the jumpseat due to the lack of a reciprocal agreement is to not understand that
the agreement is a priority agreement and not a legal ability to jumpseat agreement.
Clearly SAPA is trying to instill FAA enforcement fear in its own pilots to try to somehow hold on to their incorrect exclusive carrier benefits.
The whole SA0X debacle of regional pilots changing their res. at the last minute and bumping mainline pilots on other equipment has fueled the UAL resolve to fix this now.
Sad how it's going down, but this had to be taken care of and it will be now.
While I'm ready to shut my jumpseat down in response to this incorrect SkyWest action,
for the immediate time being, SkyWest pilots are welcome on my jumpseat.
In the charts, every non-exclusive (Mesa/SkyWest/Republic/GoJet) is at the same level, above other airlines, when the reciprocal agreement is signed.
10-13-2019, 04:57 PM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 198
Originally Posted by thaddiusMbuggs
Exactly this. We are just as shocked as anyone else this is SAPA's response and a great many of us don't agree with it and any guidance we are getting is minimal at best. I have never hidden the fact I am pro ALPA and also agree SAPA is in over their heads here.
It is extremely disheartening but I have already heard a couple of stories of UA guys who are literally going out of their way to find SKW guys at the airport and on the crew busses to tell them they either accept them on the jump and ignore SAPA or they will personally make it their business to derail future career prospects in response. Don't be that guy/gal. Leave it for behind the door with your FO or CP.
A majority of us truly don't like it anymore than you do.
And lastly just keep in mind that we are all going to have to play nice again when this is sorted out so can we all at least try to act professional?
It is extremely disheartening but I have already heard a couple of stories of UA guys who are literally going out of their way to find SKW guys at the airport and on the crew busses to tell them they either accept them on the jump and ignore SAPA or they will personally make it their business to derail future career prospects in response. Don't be that guy/gal. Leave it for behind the door with your FO or CP.
A majority of us truly don't like it anymore than you do.
And lastly just keep in mind that we are all going to have to play nice again when this is sorted out so can we all at least try to act professional?
10-13-2019, 04:59 PM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by 1257
Yes it is similar to Delta/Endeavor.
Endeavor purely feeds Delta therefore they are an exclusive carrier and they each have priority over their non-exclusive carriers.
That's exactly what the new UAL FOM states.
The truth is, SkyWest has been used to getting exclusive carrier benefits while they are not an exclusive carrier and that's being corrected.
SAPA is upset that their exclusive carrier perks are being removed even knowing they're not an exclusive carrier.
On another point, the threat of certificate action/violation for taking a UAL pilot is not true.
The failure to have an agreement is a failure to have a priority agreement, not an ability to jumpseat agreement.
So if a SkyWest pilot wanted to move UAL pilots to last priority until
a reciprocal agreement is agreed upon, I think that would be unfortunate but it could be argued.
To absolutely restrict UAL from the jumpseat due to the lack of a reciprocal agreement is to not understand that
the agreement is a priority agreement and not a legal ability to jumpseat agreement.
Clearly SAPA is trying to instill FAA enforcement fear in its own pilots to try to somehow hold on their incorrect exclusive carrier benefits.
The whole SA0X debacle of regional pilots changing their res. at the last minute and bumping mainline pilots on other equipment has fueled the UAL resolve to fix this now.
Sad how it's going down, but this had to be taken care of and it will now.
While I'm ready to shut my jumpseat down in response to this incorrect SkyWest action,
for the immediate time being, SkyWest pilots are welcome on my jumpseat.
In the charts, every non-exclusive (Mesa/SkyWest/Republic/GoJet) is at the same level, above other airlines, when the reciprocal agreement is signed.
Endeavor purely feeds Delta therefore they are an exclusive carrier and they each have priority over their non-exclusive carriers.
That's exactly what the new UAL FOM states.
The truth is, SkyWest has been used to getting exclusive carrier benefits while they are not an exclusive carrier and that's being corrected.
SAPA is upset that their exclusive carrier perks are being removed even knowing they're not an exclusive carrier.
On another point, the threat of certificate action/violation for taking a UAL pilot is not true.
The failure to have an agreement is a failure to have a priority agreement, not an ability to jumpseat agreement.
So if a SkyWest pilot wanted to move UAL pilots to last priority until
a reciprocal agreement is agreed upon, I think that would be unfortunate but it could be argued.
To absolutely restrict UAL from the jumpseat due to the lack of a reciprocal agreement is to not understand that
the agreement is a priority agreement and not a legal ability to jumpseat agreement.
Clearly SAPA is trying to instill FAA enforcement fear in its own pilots to try to somehow hold on their incorrect exclusive carrier benefits.
The whole SA0X debacle of regional pilots changing their res. at the last minute and bumping mainline pilots on other equipment has fueled the UAL resolve to fix this now.
Sad how it's going down, but this had to be taken care of and it will now.
While I'm ready to shut my jumpseat down in response to this incorrect SkyWest action,
for the immediate time being, SkyWest pilots are welcome on my jumpseat.
In the charts, every non-exclusive (Mesa/SkyWest/Republic/GoJet) is at the same level, above other airlines, when the reciprocal agreement is signed.
With the proposed priority from United, the Endeavor guy (lets say its an ExpressJet guy now) would get the priority over the Republic guy. If I'm wrong about that, then the chart I've been shown is incorrect. Please show me a different one.
10-13-2019, 05:03 PM
#228
Gets Rolled on the Reg.
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by Bravix
Endeavor does NOT have priority on a Delta Connection flight that isn't operated by them. They have priority on their own (naturally) and on Delta, above other connection carriers. If a Republic guy checks in for the jump on a SkyWest flight, and then an Endeavor guy checks in afterwards, the Republic guy gets the seat.
With the proposed priority from United, the Endeavor guy (lets say its an ExpressJet guy now) would get the priority over the Republic guy. If I'm wrong about that, then the chart I've been shown is incorrect. Please show me a different one.
With the proposed priority from United, the Endeavor guy (lets say its an ExpressJet guy now) would get the priority over the Republic guy. If I'm wrong about that, then the chart I've been shown is incorrect. Please show me a different one.
First the exclusive carrier jumpseat
10-13-2019, 05:04 PM
#229
Gets Rolled on the Reg.
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 274
Non-exclusive carrier jumpseat
Keep in mind when the agreement is signed, SkyWest is the same as GoJet.
You can see the priority benefit is only on the exclusive jumpseat.
So in your example, an ExpressJet guy would be the same as a Republic guy as a UAL guy on a SkyWest (non-exclusive) seat.
SkyWest would still go above them in SkyWest flights.
Keep in mind when the agreement is signed, SkyWest is the same as GoJet.
You can see the priority benefit is only on the exclusive jumpseat.
So in your example, an ExpressJet guy would be the same as a Republic guy as a UAL guy on a SkyWest (non-exclusive) seat.
SkyWest would still go above them in SkyWest flights.
10-13-2019, 05:09 PM
#230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Bravix
Endeavor does NOT have priority on a Delta Connection flight that isn't operated by them. They have priority on their own (naturally) and on Delta, above other connection carriers. If a Republic guy checks in for the jump on a SkyWest flight, and then an Endeavor guy checks in afterwards, the Republic guy gets the seat.
With the proposed priority from United, the Endeavor guy (lets say its an ExpressJet guy now) would get the priority over the Republic guy. If I'm wrong about that, then the chart I've been shown is incorrect. Please show me a different one.
With the proposed priority from United, the Endeavor guy (lets say its an ExpressJet guy now) would get the priority over the Republic guy. If I'm wrong about that, then the chart I've been shown is incorrect. Please show me a different one.
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