Little imperfections? Aren't you a new guy? You've got some nerve talking like that. Just look on this board and others like it and consider the problems people are discussing. It's generally not the negative Nancy's talking. And don't lump NevJets into this. It's serious people talking about systemic problems. You're like a child talking about something you know very little about. With some perspective and respect to the people who have come before you, you should listen to them about the large shift in direction at the company. It's not doom and gloom. But it is a significant change for the worse.
And I would bet on the fact the company knows the people most frustrated are actively trying to leave. It's part of the plan. There will be very few left to tell the new guys how good it could be if they would just stop and listen.

Lol came here to say the same thing. He's barely out of training and thinks he knows this place so well.

Yeah you guys are right, the scheduling here is pretty poor I won't argue with that. I suppose the fact that I'm trying to work extra mitigates that frustration for me. As far as the "kool aid" I wouldn't go that far. I've definitely had a few days where I've wanted to punch a hole in the wall courtesy of good ol CS. I've also filed a couple of PICs already so I think I've seen the ugly side as well as the good. However, I've spent more than enough time in the past being a negative wretch about my work and allowing that to poison my attitude and make me miserable. I refuse to do that any longer.

I've been fortunate enough to fly mostly with guys that share my enthusiasm for being positive. So I'm reporting what I've seen. I also don't think a union is going to solve our problems as much as they will create new ones. But what do I know? I'm just a new guy

Id be shocked beyond years if we went down to 2-3 years. I'm at 4 and I'm 400 away, with no net gain/loss of flying (unlikely since were parking about 35 Bros). Skywest is filled with very senior people that won't lewve even if they are 20-25 years from retirement. Even a great influx of new flying such as 50 planes would only move up the upgrade a year. (250 pilots, current attrition is 20-25 captains a month). There's a big bubble that will lower it about 1.5 years but I doubt it'll go below 5 anytime soon, hope I'm proven wrong.

Just running some quick numbers, the most junior captain is about 2000 on the seniority list, new hires are coming in around the 3400 mark. We're currently upgrading at about 25 crj upgrades, as well as about 25 175 captains a month. Now is that sustainable with just attrition once we stop getting new aircraft? Maybe not, but with increased attrition just from the majors, I feel like 30 upgrades per month would be a reasonable figure. So 1400/30=about 47 months or about 4 years for a new hire now to be able to upgrade.

Take that with a grain of salt, lots of things not factored into that. I'm not super concerned with the effect that the brasilia going away will have, as they said a lot of the routes will be replaced with 50 seaters, and they were definitely pulling several of those out of the desert just 6 months ago. But lots can change, attrition could be higher or lower, we could gain or lose more flying, it's a bit of a crapshoot. I may be on the optimistic side, but to me a 4 year upgrade sounds reasonable for new hires at the moment.

I was just talking about having the level of "services" your current structure costs. SAPA knows how much this cost is at current levels. The Frontier pilots have an independent union and make it work. They may be a good resource for information.

I would like to see that kind of unity. But you have to take baby steps first, get your balance, before you decide to walk or run. Anyway, this may be the first domino to fall towards that end.

That was because the administrative manual was not followed when negotiating concessions. Theoretically that's the way it's supposed to work anyway.


Companies will not liquidate out of spite, regardless. These are business decisions, not emotional based decisions. But I agree that coordination on contract negotiations is a lot easier at the majors but it's not an impossibility at the regionals either. But one thing is for certain, without Skywest having a collective bargaining agent, there will never be any meaningful coordination.




There is definitely truth to this. Just as OJ was entitled to a defense, so is any pilot that is represented by a union. If management doesn't present a good enough case, just as with OJ, then the accused is off the hook. Temporarily at least. Once you have a union, the burden of proof falls on management, opposite of what you have now. But without a union, unlike an alleged criminal that at least has a public defender, you have to pay for your own defense. Ask DD about that. Anyway, once you put yourself on the radar, the company will eventually get something on you. At least that has been my experience.

ALPA has taken a stance that if a pilot group has interest, they will have to take the initiative all by themselves to form an organizing committee with a very large membership before they will do anything. Ask the JetBlue pilots and they will let you know from their recent experience.



Are the Bro guys all going to be put on involuntary reserve like the sfo guys?


You don't have to be a negative wretch. You can be positive and also have the opinion that you would be better off with a union. Think of it this way, if SAPA was the same organization it is now with the same people in its leadership and committees, except for that they were recognized by the NMB as your collective bargaining agent, how would that create any more problems than they do now? Giving them union status just gives them an actual voice, a place at the table, more tools to use, leverage, etc. It shouldn't change anything as far as your current labor-management relations. What problems do you think would be created?

Reserve? lol we need every able body on the line right now. Come and help out Luis, many stations has 0 CA reserve staffing.

Some of us choose to look at the glass as half full. Attitudes are contagious...nothing worse than someone who consistently spews negativity.
CC i agree, most of the guys I've flown with as well don't have a sour attitude and are a pleasure to fly with.

I agree.

It was brought up earlier in the thread by somebody but part of what makes skywest great is the family atmosphere. everyone gets treated well (somewhat).

The problem is that if they give us pilots more, other positions will want more as well. If we were unionized, the company could just point the blame and say they have no choice but to give us more because of the union. Thus we get more.


That all being said, I just wish the PPM was an enforcible contract complete with a glossary and less loopholes. Specifically the "company need".

define what is and isn't company need. right now company need is anything cs wants no matter what else is going on in the world.

I don't understand your math... I've been here just over 3.5 years, and am 300 away from an upgrade per the award today. That is going off straight seniority, which is WAY worst case. Of those 300, many of them aren't willing to bid first available (or even want to be CAs period).

I don't know how long upgrades will take, but I can't imagine it will be more than 1-2 years (for you and I). I think you'll be fine.