tunes

You can't possibly be serious with this

Flip69

I'm afraid I have to agree with the others. When I initially left SKW, I was apprehensive about what to expect. But to be honest, the last 2 years at UA have been much better than the 9 years I had at SKW. Better schedules, better work rules and you get treated like a professional, which was lacking in some areas at SKW. Now I'm not saying SKW was bad....just that it is not the be all and end all of airline management. Over the time I was there I saw it deteriorate to the point that leaving was not a difficult decision. I didn't commute at SKW and commuted for the first year and a half at UA and my QOL was still much better, even getting holidays off the first year (this year also). And now I don't commute.

SAPA has gotten to be so ineffective and many of the pilots are still as feckless as ever that its easy for management to get what they want without much pushback

BeechLuxuryLnr

I'm not trying to imply skywest is the best job in the industry. Just saying it is helpful to keep everything in perspective. There are many of us that forget this is a good job and skywest is a good company to work for. I enjoy my job, and I like working here - that's it.

I interviewed at Frontier last year and did poorly. I think part of it was a lack of preparation, part apprehension about leaving skywest. I was worried about possibly commuting to ORD (worst commute from DEN I have ever had the pleasure of), and that I would be back on reserve and making less money (I'm a 3rd year FO). I could interview there again, but I'm not convinced that my life would be better if I was hired. I also had the opportunity to interview at airways two years ago and turned it down. I had no interest in their bases and I did not have the time to prepare for an interview then. I regret that decision now. But I'm reasonably sure that I'm much happier today working at skywest than I would have been commuting to PHL for airways. But yeah, I might have passed up great career opportunities. So be it.

So that's my point. Not that skywest is the be-all and end-all airline. I just prefer to drive to work, for a company that I like, and be happy today. And call it kool aid drinking, or what you will, but it tastes better than the grass on the other side of the fence. I really enjoy my time at home more than anything. Even with the long call rules at the legacies, it would still be a PIA to commute. I would rather just move to the base. And I love where I live - I grew up here and never intend to leave. But we all have to figure out what is important.

I voted against the pay package and I always will. The company will always offer something better if we vote it down. Which is the second point - why this company doesn't need a union. The management has shown far more interest in negotiating than most. We just need to ask for more. And yes, ready RSV and TDY is miserable. But when over 80% of the pilot group holds a line, it creates a bit of a disconnect. Not sure how to fix that.... other than vote down the next pay package with that being a concession. But the majority of folks here that want a union have never dealt with a union at a regional. When necessary, it serves it's purpose, but it doesn't make sense at skywest today. It would be a waste of our money.

I feel like the point of the thread is to honestly discuss skywest. So I'm trying to be honest. It's a good discussion. Most of us will leave this company in the next decade, but for now, I feel like it's a good place to be.

Paid2fly

The passengers have been paying far more than $2 more per seat. The airlines have been raising not just ticket prices, but all kinds of ancillary revenues as well. Combine this with the fact that oil prices have been dropping for months, and are close to half of what they used to be, and they could give every single regional pilot double digit increases all the while producing record profits!

JustAMushroom

On your last point I have to disagree. You must not be paying attention to the current negotiations with Sapa.
In all my years here it has never been more evident how impotent Sapa truly is.
They are disrespected at every turn yet somehow still come back for more. I'm not going to air the dirty laundry on a public forum, but if you're paying attention you know what I'm talking about. While I applaud their efforts, one has to honestly evaluate the current state of affairs. Yes, doing nothing is not an option. but at what point does this pilot group focus their efforts on something more than a charade. I think the time is near when this group has to finally face the fact the only way management is ever going to give us the respect we deserve is if demand respect.
ALPA is a mixed bag I know. But being ignored and disrespected is not working either.

Is offline

I left an ALPA carrier to come to Skywest, and at that time it was like day and night. I never had a problem getting something addressed or fixed. Scheduling was working with people and they were not treating me like a stepchild. Now fast forward a few years and skywest is starting to be run just like the rest of the regionals. Scheduling will purposely try to hose you and there is no one to hold them accountable.

I have noticed that there is a great devide between the 12+ year pilots and the rest of the group. There is a "good ole boy" club here that know everyone and think that nothing can change in their world. Over the next couple of years I feel the situation only getting worse when staffing falls even more short.

Nevets

This works great for those that have the experience to know how all the rules are supposed to work. But for the new guys are the ones who are just apathetic and will take it just not to get into a disagreement (and in the process hurts the next guy CS deals with), they don't have a safety net. A union is the watchdog for everyone from the most experienced guy that doesn't let CS screw them to the last guy on the seniority list.

But you can't tell me that your grievance process is fair. I'm taking about those instances where they just don't agree with you. Until you have the leverage of a neutral third party deciding, management will take advantage of that as much as they see fit.

As for vague language, what matters is precedent. However management has been interpreting vague language, becomes status quo. After voting in a union, they can't change how they've been interpreting it without the union's consent.


I think you are confusing the purpose of a union. You are right that it doesn't guarantee that the company will be successful. That's not the purpose of a union. There are certain things are will always be management's right. A union just collectively bargains with management. They don't dictate to management what the pilots will be paid. That comes by mutual agreement between both parties. And you are right that mainline management in conjunction with their pilots' union decide what flying they outsource to regionals. The union at the regional just tries to negotiate the best deal possible for the current circumstances. And that is achieved by mutual agreement with management. Lastly, I wholeheartedly agree with seniority transfer rights. But frankly, without you being union to begin with, you won't have that opportunity if it ever exists. And it's something that xjt is working on, by the way.


If the company would get ****ed off for exercising your right to collective bargaining for the purpose of having an enforceable contract, then that says all you need to know about your management. Especially since they already enjoy the rights to have their own contract. Having a union doesn't you no longer have a well run company. But if you believe you should be compensated better (not necessarily with higher pay rates), then the only way that's going to happen is with a collective bargaining agreement.

Also, if you believe there is a conflict of interest, you can simply certify SAPA. Ask any pilot from MESA, republic, TSA, or xjt if they would be better off without a union. Because I can tell you that each respective management would be compensating those pilots even less today!

No one is asking for delta contract. But you said it yourself, you should be paid better. Management is not just going to give that to you. And they shouldn't just give that to you. In business it all comes down to leverage when it comes to compensation.

Lastly, a pilot union is not just about a contract. It's a lot more than that.


This is a good point. For some, it doesn't make sense to move on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to incrementally make it better where you are, at least while you are there.


And this is what I'm talking about when I say a union is a watchdog. A contract holds BOTH sides accountable, with a fair neutral process to decide disputes on what is fair. But you can't have a collective bargaining agreement without a collective bargaining agent.

CJC1024

Anyone in the Dec 29 class?

BeechLuxuryLnr

All very fair points made here. A union at an airline with management that does everything possible to pinch every penny from their pilots is without a doubt a necessity. Yes, the union is more than a medium to negotiate a contract. It enforces the contract, it mediates grievances, and it provides legal resources, amongst other things.

And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.

I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.

I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.

Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.

We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.

The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.

I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.

BeechLuxuryLnr

All very fair points made here. A union at an airline with management that does everything possible to pinch every penny from their pilots is without a doubt a necessity. Yes, the union is more than a medium to negotiate a contract. It enforces the contract, it mediates grievances, and it provides legal resources, amongst other things.

And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.

I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.

I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.

Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.

We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.

The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.

I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.