FlyinRabbit88

Do you actually think things would be "better" with a union? Yes we would have more resources if we were under alpa but most likely if we were, we would prob be dealing with a 3 plus year battle with LXJT over whose PBS was better, SLI complaints and whatever else is upsetting people.
In the big picture we are lucky to have what we have in terms of an airline that is run well and profitable with contracts that keep us profitable. Would you rather be a 6 plus year FO at Eagle or Pinnacoloba? Of course we all wish things could be better here from being treated by CS and our pay/QOL was actually worthy of our effort that gets our leadership the contracts and praise by the industry. Of course. I wish upgrade would come faster, or I get the golden ticket just to get an interview at a major airline. QOL is how you make it. Sit down with your chief and just vent. Surprisingly some Chiefs actually welcome it and are happy to just sit down to talk and hear how you feel without fear of punishment. I have had my chief go to bat for me numbers of times and a few times I have had to get a nice talking to, but has always been nice to answer a text or a call whenever he could.
The regional life can be an emotional drain, especially for those that commute. We all want the respect our job entails and many times from PBS issues month after month, to agreements signed by management and sapa not being honored, reserve abuse by CS every little thing just makes you want to flip out. Honestly what could we do? SAPA is handcuffed, a union vote who knows what that would bring let alone actually get voted in when many of us are bitter from how ALPA rep has gone down at some of our previous airlines. Do I wish we could have the power of a major Union like dalpa of course but that will never happen. When was the last strike, let alone a regional besides Comair in 2001?

It is what it is, change moves slowly if at all here at Skywest. It sad but all we can do is try and take vacations or at worst use a "platinum" day to clear our heads and be with family. It sucks but it is what it is.

Nevets

Personally, I don't think there is anothing wrong with a high deductible health plan. Of course the terms of that plan can be negotiated so that the deductible as at the federal minimum, the out of pocket maximum is lower, premiums lower (company contribution higher), and HSA contributions higher. This is also true for the traditional plans. What really makes these plans expensive for the pilot is the fact that they pay 38% (at last check) of the insurance premiums, which has put upward pressure on everyone else. This is one of the biggest compensation expenses to companies and is why they have been fighting so hard to shift it to the employees.

Trust me, I've been very disappointed as well. But your "me-too" clause and your higher cost sharing percentage, couple with the lower plan terms, only drags us down in negotiations. I'm glad we voted no just based on that alone. But unfortunately places like PSA, PDT, and envoy have seen their percentage go up to 35% to get closer to yours. Up until their votes, yours was the only one in the 30s.

Also, its hard to compare plans because there are so many moving parts. But you need to look beyond premiums. You need to look at the percentage of total premiums you pay, deductible, out of pocket max, and any HSA contributions, if applicable. That's just to name the major components on your cost.

How many times is it going to take for others to realize? This isn't the first time they've made their morals known.

What forces them to come up with another deal within a year? Nothing, so if that was the reason people voted for this pay package, then it was very naive of them. Timelines very rarely pan out, much less in a non-collective bargaining agreement.

Or you could do both! Going on strike takes a LONG time, if ever. But they can be motivated in other ways. For example, without some kind of New Aircraft clause (standard in contracts now), the pilots don't have any leverage in negotiating those rates. Same goes with a COLA clause, which I don't think is standard but a good idea nonetheless. You could stipulate that its tied to the CPI, as all CPAs rate increases are. But you will not get either without a union, that's almost definite.

Just to clarify, the xjt mec doesn't care what pbs system the ASA pilots use. The xjt mec just wants an opportunity to see if smartpref is better than flight line. Also, just because you are union, does not automatically mean a merger. Unfortunately, our mec caved on that and our contract no longer requires that. And without a contract that forces management, they will not do anything they don't want on their own.

As for things being better with a union, most definitely! For one small example, disillusioned is complaining about trip construction and pbs awards. With a union, and a contract as leverage, you can have a committee that oversees both trip construction and pbs line awards. This alone can see huge benefits in qol as it has been for both xjt and asa pilots. Without actual binding language of a collective bargaining agreement and its corresponding greivance process that concludes in a neutral third party deciding, you will only have enough leverage to appease the squeaky wheels, nothing more. Its been proven over and over again. They play one set of pilots over another demographic of pilots, just enough to garner enough votes.

As for wishing things can be better, of course they can always be better. That doesn't mean you get treated like Mesa pilots but it also doesn't mean you should settle. You work for the most profitable regional airline. you shouldn't be treated unfairly by CS or anyone else. And the only thing that binds the company to fairness, is what yo have in your collective bargaining agreement and a third party deciding the fairness value in it. Just those two couple of things can improve QOL tremendously, since as you said, QOL is how you make it. Its not all about pay rates. But I'm glad you mentioned commuting at a regional. Did you know that Commutair just recently got paid hotels for their commute? The only way this was possible is because they have a collective bargaining agreement. The company wanted something so their mec worked with them to come up with something that they felt was fair. Without a union, the company wouldve just put a memo out telling pilots that if they are having trouble commuting to just call them. At that point its up to the mood and discretion of the person on the other side of the phone to decide your fate, instead of having preset rules that are part of a written and binding agreement that each side is accountable to uphold with no subjectivity by a voice on the other end of the phone. This things are huge QOL items that can only be administered fairly among thousands of pilots only if there is a collective bargaining agreement.

What can you do? Vote in a union and representatives that will work constructively, honestly, and professionally with management in order so that both sides can meet their needs in a fair unbiased manner. That has nothing to do with ALPA or dalpa or any other four letter acronyms. This has to do with the quality of people among your ranks, not anyone outside organization. You would be your own union regardless. Hopefully making good decisions for the betterment of both yourselves and the industry as opposed to a couple of examples of the opposite. But in either case, you would make your own decisions, as evidenced by the above mentioned examples. In other words, you don't have to strike if you don't ever want to.

skypilot35

If a union was voted in tomorrow at Skywest a contract wouldn't be in place for years. Most guys / gals here have no desire to be here for any amount of time. The guys / gals who have been here for years have no desire to have a union. A union at the regional does NOTHING! Beat your union drum all you want! The frustration expressed by Disillusioned is felt across all regionals. Having a union does not correct it. One seniority list might

Nevets

Actually, if a union were voted in tomorrow, your current pilot policy manual would become status quo, until a new contract is negotiated. Meaning that management would have to treat just as a contract. In other words, they cannot change anything in it unless it's by mutual agreement between both parties. That alone would be a huge QOL improvement.

As for frustrations, yes, that happens at all jobs. Some are justified and some probably are not. The difference is that with a union, you can actually use what management wants into negotiating capital to get something better by mutual agreement. Hence the commutair example. You can say that a union at a regional does nothing but it simple isn't true. It doesn't give you as much leverage that you would otherwise along with the QOL improvements I mentioned. Those are facts regardless of what you say or others may think.

BrewCity

Ever heard of leaving a place better than you found it?

rcfd13

I don't think so. Of course I've had crew support try to violate the PPM, but any time I've called them out on it or called a SAPA rep I've won. They mostly stick to it or are forced to stick to it. The issue is that the PPM is written in such vague terms that it can be 'interpreted' in different ways and usually you don't win those battles. If the policy were made into contract by a union vote the same vague areas would still exist and they would still do the same things they do today to work around it. The whole thing needs to be re-written to fix that which would require a contract vote which would take a few years.

rcfd13

What I seriously don't get is why they don't want to do everything they can from the business side to make the pairings more efficient. 5x16 hour 4 days = 80 hours. 4x20 hour 4 days = 80 hours. They could decrease staffing across the same number of block hours by increasing pairing efficiency. It seems like the best win-win situation possible for both management and the pilot group. They save money on less staffing, we get more days off per month with better pairings.

Someone with a business degree please explain to me why they would even want to keep building 16 hour 4 days and inefficient trips. It makes no sense to me why they want to pay me to sit in hotel rooms for 30 hours.

skypilot35

Skywest is a good place to work. The wages are competitive. I would not hesitate to recommend working here.

That being said, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you but unions don't guarantee that the company you work for will be a better place nor do they guarantee that they will have a future. IMO I don't believe a union has any sway at the regional level. We (regional pilots) are contractors who work for a contracting agency (regional airlines). The majors doling out the flying are in charge and it makes no difference to them what's in the union contract that your parent company signed. If United, Delta, American or Alaska decide that the contracting company (Envoy, Comair, ExpressJet, Pinnacle, Horizon, Skywest, etc.) is too expensive or difficult, they move the flying. Regional Unions have NO control over that. A union at this level is impotent. A union CAN vote in a ridiculous pay scale to undercut their competitors which seems to be a recurring theme (obviously Envoy broke the mold on that ). The only way this industry gets better is with one seniority list and one collective voice. That will never happen. The regionals will continue to shrink. The majors will milk this system as long as their able. Eventually, there will be 3 regionals remaining. 5-10 years tops. Figure out how to make one seniority list which transfers between regionals. I'll sign on to that.

skypilot35

^^^^^This!

BeechLuxuryLnr

Skywest is a good place to work. It's important to keep this in perspective.

This is a very well run company. If you left tomorrow for say, Spirit or Frontier would your QOL be improved? Probably not. Even if United offers you a job tomorrow, your QOL would probably take a hit for 3 -5 years. Of course this all depends on where you live, among other factors. But I'm fairly certain that if I leave Skywest, I will probably not work for another company that treats their employees as well as Skywest has.

Yes, we all should be paid and compensated better. I'm not saying we shouldn't ask for what we're worth. But all regionals have their hands tied by the companies they do branded flying for. But we choose to work here knowing this.

And please don't expect a union to change much. If anything, it would **** off the company to no end. IMO unions are mostly ineffective at regionals, especially if they also represent a major partner. So that leaves us with few options. Ask any other regional pilot how effective their union has been. I could think of a lot of ways I'd rather spend that 20$ a month. This all pertains to Skywest of course - I don't think I would work for any other regional without representation.

So yeah, we all would like Delta's contract, but that's not going to happen at a regional. Of course it could be better, but that could always be said. Enjoy your time at Skywest because you'll never get it back.

I hope I don't sound like a d*** saying this - I just think it's important to consider that we all signed up for this job.