Skywest
12-01-2014 | 08:15 PM
#8041
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
All very fair points made here. A union at an airline with management that does everything possible to pinch every penny from their pilots is without a doubt a necessity. Yes, the union is more than a medium to negotiate a contract. It enforces the contract, it mediates grievances, and it provides legal resources, amongst other things.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I left an ALPA carrier to come to Skywest, and at that time it was like day and night. I never had a problem getting something addressed or fixed. Scheduling was working with people and they were not treating me like a stepchild. Now fast forward a few years and skywest is starting to be run just like the rest of the regionals. Scheduling will purposely try to hose you and there is no one to hold them accountable.
I have noticed that there is a great devide between the 12+ year pilots and the rest of the group. There is a "good ole boy" club here that know everyone and think that nothing can change in their world. Over the next couple of years I feel the situation only getting worse when staffing falls even more short.
I have noticed that there is a great devide between the 12+ year pilots and the rest of the group. There is a "good ole boy" club here that know everyone and think that nothing can change in their world. Over the next couple of years I feel the situation only getting worse when staffing falls even more short.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
12-02-2014 | 05:49 AM
#8042
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
All very fair points made here. A union at an airline with management that does everything possible to pinch every penny from their pilots is without a doubt a necessity. Yes, the union is more than a medium to negotiate a contract. It enforces the contract, it mediates grievances, and it provides legal resources, amongst other things.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
Kool-Aid, nope you are huffing on the SKYW toluene sock. Stop huffing paint fumes and start looking around. Since you were at a former union airline, what Union position or committees did you work on, if the answer is none, you were the reason why the situation was less than optimal.
Everything you typed except for your experiences with Skrew skeduling was SAPA Ford & Harrison script. http://www.fordharrison.com
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tAgjII4CRi4
Last edited by ClickClickBoom; 12-02-2014 at 06:03 AM.
12-02-2014 | 08:29 AM
#8043
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,923
Likes: 698
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I have and have always had serious reservations about ALPA at the regional level. My mainline buddies (military guys, no regional experience) consider it a conflict of interest that ALPA serves both mainline and regionals...and ALPA serves them a lot better than us.
But I voted yes on the last drive, not because I thought it would get me anything at SKW but in hopes of maybe solidifying a unified front at the regional level. In light of today's environment that would be a lost cause...too much competitive pressure, too many people looking for TPIC, and management ready and willing to liquidate before paying out on a good contract.
I'd vote yes again, but this time more in the hope of arresting any further declines in pay and QOL.
12-02-2014 | 10:31 AM
#8044
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Skywest is obviously making money. There is no debating that. And the margins aren't razor thin. They're just much smaller than at the major partners.
Until there is a higher demand for regional pilots, the bidding on regional flying will remain very competitive. Not much will change until we see that happen, union or no union. It's not like any of the other regionals are any better off than we are because of their union. I just see spending 20$ a month on union dues to be a waste of money. And I don't see how it solidifies the pilot group any further other than everybody is paying union dues.
It's not like I'd be disappointed if a union was voted in either. I just don't see how it changes anything so I'd rather save the money.
Just my opinion.
Until there is a higher demand for regional pilots, the bidding on regional flying will remain very competitive. Not much will change until we see that happen, union or no union. It's not like any of the other regionals are any better off than we are because of their union. I just see spending 20$ a month on union dues to be a waste of money. And I don't see how it solidifies the pilot group any further other than everybody is paying union dues.
It's not like I'd be disappointed if a union was voted in either. I just don't see how it changes anything so I'd rather save the money.
Just my opinion.
12-02-2014 | 10:09 PM
#8045
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Skywest
All very fair points made here. A union at an airline with management that does everything possible to pinch every penny from their pilots is without a doubt a necessity. Yes, the union is more than a medium to negotiate a contract. It enforces the contract, it mediates grievances, and it provides legal resources, amongst other things.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
And I agree that I may be wrong, but I intuitively feel like the management here will work with us. Every time I've called scheduling out on something, they have complied. It may have taken an MOD to resolve it, but they always have.
I've been at a union airline, and when I had a disagreement with scheduling the answer was always to grieve it. And when I did, nothing happened - not until 50 other pilots did the same. It was always a slow process and there was a huge divide between the pilots and the rest of the company. Again, just my experience.
I feel that no matter where you are, scheduling will always try to pull a fast one on you, especially if you're on reserve. You just have to recognize it and call them out. I only spent one and a half years on reserve here- and it was less than desirable - but I never had a situation that I couldn't resolve with the scheduler or the MOD. Maybe I was lucky - who knows. I just feel like the policies here are more than reasonable.
Bringing in a union to this airline would only create bureaucracy and cost the pilots more money. It would do little, if anything to improve our QOL. The company is a regional airline. The margins are small and the major partners have other companies willing to work for less. Until that changes, don't expect much to change no matter who represents us.
We can agree to disagree, but I think this is good place to work. I'm grateful the company has always worked with me. They do many things that other regionals do not do.
The regional airlines have their hands tied by the major partners. It is frustrating that half of us are flying regional jets making a fraction of what we are worth. But if I have to be at a regional, I'm glad it's skywest. And I personally believe that being an FO at skywest, living in my base, and holding a line is better than being a new hire at some of the lesser paid airbus operators.
I'm not trying to bring us all together in some kind of skywest kumbaya here. I'm just trying to tell it how I see it.
You make a lot of good arguments in favor of a union. A union is a lot more than a contract, although that's important as well. But there is a whole community of professional pilots out there (everyone else that is union) that is fighting to make this profession more safe and making sure that safety isn't eroded by the powers that be (RAA, a4a, foreign airlines, and their lobbyists).
As for bureaucracy and costing more money for the pilots, that's a misconception. The pilots elect leadership to represent them when dealing with management. That's all a union is. Yes, it cost pilots dues money. But you get back more than the price of that dues money (which is tax deductible). You get an actual seat at the table with a voice. You get a say when management wants to change your terms of employment. If management wants to add to the cost of being capricious during those talks, then it's proof that without the union being there, you would lose out from what management was going to give you without the union bureaucracy being there. Just that fact alone, that they cannot interpret language on a pilot by pilot basis (to pray on the new, ignorant, or indifferent) will improve QOL!
As for changing the regional industry, it would help if the largest regional pilot group was actually playing the game against the a4a and RAA rather than just watching from the sidelines and hoping or complaining on the lack of change.
Lastly, if management is willing to work with you, then they will be willing to work with a union. If they are not willing to work with a union, then that's proof enough you need a union. So either way, it's a good thing.
Used to be the case, and there's still that "aura" here but the reality is that it's turning into just another regional.
I have and have always had serious reservations about ALPA at the regional level. My mainline buddies (military guys, no regional experience) consider it a conflict of interest that ALPA serves both mainline and regionals...and ALPA serves them a lot better than us.
But I voted yes on the last drive, not because I thought it would get me anything at SKW but in hopes of maybe solidifying a unified front at the regional level. In light of today's environment that would be a lost cause...too much competitive pressure, too many people looking for TPIC, and management ready and willing to liquidate before paying out on a good contract.
I'd vote yes again, but this time more in the hope of arresting any further declines in pay and QOL.
I have and have always had serious reservations about ALPA at the regional level. My mainline buddies (military guys, no regional experience) consider it a conflict of interest that ALPA serves both mainline and regionals...and ALPA serves them a lot better than us.
But I voted yes on the last drive, not because I thought it would get me anything at SKW but in hopes of maybe solidifying a unified front at the regional level. In light of today's environment that would be a lost cause...too much competitive pressure, too many people looking for TPIC, and management ready and willing to liquidate before paying out on a good contract.
I'd vote yes again, but this time more in the hope of arresting any further declines in pay and QOL.
You don't have to go ALPA. Hell, I've been saying to just certify SAPA as your nmb recognized collective bargaining agent. Just doing that alone without changing ANYTHING else will improve the hand you have dealt your SAPA reps.
But let me just add, ALPa is simply an association of independent unions. Each airline is represented by pilots from their ranks. They are the only ones who are able to make decisions on the business dealings with management. No one else at national has the authority to do ANYTHING about what the individual MEC does. And neither can any other MEC, mainline or regional, has a say in what other MECs do. It's no different than how the Coalition of Airline Pilots Association works. The elected leaders of CAPA cannot tell FAPA or RAH IBT what to do. And neither can the APA tell SWAPA what to do. The conflict of interest is a HUGE misconception!
Skywest is obviously making money. There is no debating that. And the margins aren't razor thin. They're just much smaller than at the major partners.
Until there is a higher demand for regional pilots, the bidding on regional flying will remain very competitive. Not much will change until we see that happen, union or no union. It's not like any of the other regionals are any better off than we are because of their union. I just see spending 20$ a month on union dues to be a waste of money. And I don't see how it solidifies the pilot group any further other than everybody is paying union dues.
It's not like I'd be disappointed if a union was voted in either. I just don't see how it changes anything so I'd rather save the money.
Just my opinion.
Until there is a higher demand for regional pilots, the bidding on regional flying will remain very competitive. Not much will change until we see that happen, union or no union. It's not like any of the other regionals are any better off than we are because of their union. I just see spending 20$ a month on union dues to be a waste of money. And I don't see how it solidifies the pilot group any further other than everybody is paying union dues.
It's not like I'd be disappointed if a union was voted in either. I just don't see how it changes anything so I'd rather save the money.
Just my opinion.
Do you honestly believe that places like MESA would be treated better by JO if they had no union? Also, you keep saying that you rather not spend the dues money. I can relate with you on that. Every year after not having anything bad happen, I feel like I could've saved money if I didn't pay for home owner's insurance, or auto insurance, or long term disability insurance, or life insurance, or dental insurance, etc. Dues are not much unlike instance premiums. When things go bad, you'll be happy to have had it. Ask DD if he would've been better off with it? At the very least it saves you a lot of heartache.
Last edited by Nevets; 12-02-2014 at 10:22 PM.
12-03-2014 | 01:37 AM
#8046
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
anyone know what the current upgrade time is for new hire at skywest? and what's currently their most junior base? how long before one could request lax? thanks
12-03-2014 | 02:24 AM
#8048
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Capt
Most Jr. Capt looks like CRJ in MSP at about 7+years. Jr FO in LAX looks like about 1.5 years in. These numbers won't be accurate for very long. There is a lot of movements due to Bro and E7 changes. Good luck.
12-03-2014 | 06:42 AM
#8049
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 0
I just looked at the LAX stats for a friend. There's 47xxx guys holding LA, some barely finished with IOE, 1-2 mos online. Who knows.
12-03-2014 | 06:49 AM
#8050
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Big foot
Jr Fo is way junior than 1.5 years. First year guys are holding RJ lines.
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