SAV closes early
05-11-2023 | 04:30 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 693
Likes: 30
05-12-2023 | 05:39 AM
#33
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 240
From: B737CA
Very good news! Better than I anticipated.
Stay frosty!! This definitely helps our cause. But we are still far from a release both in terms of our number of days in mediation and in being close to an impasse (sections are still being AIP'd).
I'm expecting a Delta/Alaska-esque offer from the company in response to the SAV within the next few months that will have enough curb appeal - but still fall very short of what we're capable of achieving - that it may be forwarded by the BOD to the membership as a TA. If that happens, it will more than likely become our new contract.
IMO, if we do vote it down, much better will be available to us as we continue moving toward a release from mediation.
Achieving a truly industry-leading, "generational" contract under the RLA requires patience and the ability to delay gratification - something pilots historically have not displayed much aptitude for.
Stay frosty!! This definitely helps our cause. But we are still far from a release both in terms of our number of days in mediation and in being close to an impasse (sections are still being AIP'd).
I'm expecting a Delta/Alaska-esque offer from the company in response to the SAV within the next few months that will have enough curb appeal - but still fall very short of what we're capable of achieving - that it may be forwarded by the BOD to the membership as a TA. If that happens, it will more than likely become our new contract.
IMO, if we do vote it down, much better will be available to us as we continue moving toward a release from mediation.
Achieving a truly industry-leading, "generational" contract under the RLA requires patience and the ability to delay gratification - something pilots historically have not displayed much aptitude for.
05-12-2023 | 06:59 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 834
Likes: 21
Very good news! Better than I anticipated.
Stay frosty!! This definitely helps our cause. But we are still far from a release both in terms of our number of days in mediation and in being close to an impasse (sections are still being AIP'd).
I'm expecting a Delta/Alaska-esque offer from the company in response to the SAV within the next few months that will have enough curb appeal - but still fall very short of what we're capable of achieving - that it may be forwarded by the BOD to the membership as a TA. If that happens, it will more than likely become our new contract.
IMO, if we do vote it down, much better will be available to us as we continue moving toward a release from mediation.
Achieving a truly industry-leading, "generational" contract under the RLA requires patience and the ability to delay gratification - something pilots historically have not displayed much aptitude for.
Stay frosty!! This definitely helps our cause. But we are still far from a release both in terms of our number of days in mediation and in being close to an impasse (sections are still being AIP'd).
I'm expecting a Delta/Alaska-esque offer from the company in response to the SAV within the next few months that will have enough curb appeal - but still fall very short of what we're capable of achieving - that it may be forwarded by the BOD to the membership as a TA. If that happens, it will more than likely become our new contract.
IMO, if we do vote it down, much better will be available to us as we continue moving toward a release from mediation.
Achieving a truly industry-leading, "generational" contract under the RLA requires patience and the ability to delay gratification - something pilots historically have not displayed much aptitude for.
But, who knows? When $400/trip starts to get whispered around, the resolve may soften.
05-12-2023 | 07:13 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,163
Likes: 143
You won't need to get released to get a leading industry CBA. Almost every single leading provision that has ever been put in a pilot's CBA over the last 70 plus years have been outside a cooling off period/lockout. A lot of doubters on here that we would have a bad showing on the vote. Very unified right now. It doesn't take much operationally to move the needle our way. We already fly very dense trips with high block per duty period. Simply not accepting extensions, JA fatigues will bring this company to its knees. That's a fact. The company builds no slack at all in our lines/trips. The word CHAOS is not taken lightly but if they don't start putting real counters across the table SWA pilots may have to help the NC some more. Just remember when your in an out station or in domicile and they try to extend you kindly accept and then make a fatigue call. Bring extra clothes this summer. You'll need it.
1. If you are tired, call fatigued.
2. If you dont want to accept an extension, you dont have too.
3. The companies line building is their problem, not ours, therefore it is their problem to fix, not ours.
4. Let SWAPA handle the negotiating.
05-12-2023 | 08:08 AM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,568
Likes: 128
From: Left
Job actions are not allowed here, however.
1. If you are tired, call fatigued.
2. If you dont want to accept an extension, you dont have too.
3. The companies line building is their problem, not ours, therefore it is their problem to fix, not ours.
4. Let SWAPA handle the negotiating.
1. If you are tired, call fatigued.
2. If you dont want to accept an extension, you dont have too.
3. The companies line building is their problem, not ours, therefore it is their problem to fix, not ours.
4. Let SWAPA handle the negotiating.
Stop your whining. You can sleep when you’re dead. Some of us like 11 hour layovers at a Hyatt Place. ( no food to be had when done work for the day ). Some of us also like 16 our duty days., there is absolutely no need to call in fatigued. CS has no problem giving 16 our duty days because they know you can handle it.
Do you think it is a picnic working at headquarters? It is hard work going and playing pickle ball during work along with having the deck parties. The Frontline employees need to shut up and start coloring inside the lines..
05-12-2023 | 08:41 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
Lol. You're kidding, right?
Back in March, in response to Delta's TA ratification, you were saying something very similar to what I said here. You said:
You caught tons of flak from Delta guys for "invading" their forum and criticizing them for capitulating.
The scenario I outlined is exactly what occurred at both Alaska and Delta in the wake of their overwhelming SAV's. Within a few months, their NC's and MEC's sent TA's to their membership that many, including yourself, felt fell short of what they could have achieved.
At both Alaska and Delta, one of the most often heard replies to criticism of their TA's was something like, "What? You don't trust our NC? You don't trust our MEC?" It was the same sort of thing heard here last cycle in response to criticism of our then-TA that is now the garbage we currently work under.
You know as well as I do that FordHarrison is behind the curtain helping to guide all the major airlines through their negotiations. This is the FordHarrison playbook.
"Negative waves," or realistic?
Back in March, in response to Delta's TA ratification, you were saying something very similar to what I said here. You said:
I'm not worried about strike vote at all. I'm worried about the sales job with the first TA that comes our way, negotiating fatigue setting in, and settling for garbage.
...
Actually, I'm saying that Delta pilots effectively castrated any balls that might have been growing elsewhere by accepting this as everyone, and particularly our management has been watching you guys "set the market."
...
Actually, I'm saying that Delta pilots effectively castrated any balls that might have been growing elsewhere by accepting this as everyone, and particularly our management has been watching you guys "set the market."
The scenario I outlined is exactly what occurred at both Alaska and Delta in the wake of their overwhelming SAV's. Within a few months, their NC's and MEC's sent TA's to their membership that many, including yourself, felt fell short of what they could have achieved.
At both Alaska and Delta, one of the most often heard replies to criticism of their TA's was something like, "What? You don't trust our NC? You don't trust our MEC?" It was the same sort of thing heard here last cycle in response to criticism of our then-TA that is now the garbage we currently work under.
You know as well as I do that FordHarrison is behind the curtain helping to guide all the major airlines through their negotiations. This is the FordHarrison playbook.
"Negative waves," or realistic?
05-12-2023 | 08:41 AM
#38
At your mom's house
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,674
Likes: 449
From: cpt 737
Stop your whining. You can sleep when you’re dead. Some of us like 11 hour layovers at a Hyatt Place. ( no food to be had when done work for the day ). Some of us also like 16 our duty days., there is absolutely no need to call in fatigued. CS has no problem giving 16 our duty days because they know you can handle it.
Do you think it is a picnic working at headquarters? It is hard work going and playing pickle ball during work along with having the deck parties. The Frontline employees need to shut up and start coloring inside the lines..
Do you think it is a picnic working at headquarters? It is hard work going and playing pickle ball during work along with having the deck parties. The Frontline employees need to shut up and start coloring inside the lines..
05-12-2023 | 10:21 AM
#39
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 240
From: B737CA
Lol. You're kidding, right?
Back in March, in response to Delta's TA ratification, you were saying something very similar to what I said here. You said:
You caught tons of flak from Delta guys for "invading" their forum and criticizing them for capitulating.
The scenario I outlined is exactly what occurred at both Alaska and Delta in the wake of their overwhelming SAV's. Within a few months, their NC's and MEC's sent TA's to their membership that many, including yourself, felt fell short of what they could have achieved.
At both Alaska and Delta, one of the most often heard replies to criticism of their TA's was something like, "What? You don't trust our NC? You don't trust our MEC?" It was the same sort of thing heard here last cycle in response to criticism of our then-TA that is now the garbage we currently work under.
You know as well as I do that FordHarrison is behind the curtain helping to guide all the major airlines through their negotiations. This is the FordHarrison playbook.
"Negative waves," or realistic?
Back in March, in response to Delta's TA ratification, you were saying something very similar to what I said here. You said:
You caught tons of flak from Delta guys for "invading" their forum and criticizing them for capitulating.
The scenario I outlined is exactly what occurred at both Alaska and Delta in the wake of their overwhelming SAV's. Within a few months, their NC's and MEC's sent TA's to their membership that many, including yourself, felt fell short of what they could have achieved.
At both Alaska and Delta, one of the most often heard replies to criticism of their TA's was something like, "What? You don't trust our NC? You don't trust our MEC?" It was the same sort of thing heard here last cycle in response to criticism of our then-TA that is now the garbage we currently work under.
You know as well as I do that FordHarrison is behind the curtain helping to guide all the major airlines through their negotiations. This is the FordHarrison playbook.
"Negative waves," or realistic?
So.....
05-12-2023 | 11:23 AM
#40
At your mom's house
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,674
Likes: 449
From: cpt 737
[QUOTE=RJSAviator76;3635688]Did we capitulate, Lew? There's a time and place for everything. You didn't trust we would get to where we are... yet, here we are. SWAPA is also on the record saying that unlike before, they will not be sending any BS AIP's that are unratifiable... They have polling data (you did participate, right?), now they have a damn near unanimous SAV.
So.....
Ratifiable means something different to everyone. Would the union send us something they think 51% would vote yes for? That's ratifiable.
will everyone be happy? Not a chance.
After listening to the podcast on the history of the union and how many times in the past pilots voted for concessions or no increases I'm a little worried also. Basically in the unions 45 yrs I think only 2 contracts were not a concession.
if I had been here as long as lew I'd be worried as well.
Flight plan 2020 is outdated already and in that there was too much rhetoric about helping the company as well. Think JAs. What is written in the FP is not even close to what guys are saying online or through social media.
remember how the platform was 1 billion short of what we were told was the floor? That passed by 86%
In just how much this group was willing to sell everything else for the ability to sell back their vacation worried me.
I think we'll do ok but I dont think we'll do what we need to.
Itll be as underwhelming as delta contract.
So.....
Ratifiable means something different to everyone. Would the union send us something they think 51% would vote yes for? That's ratifiable.
will everyone be happy? Not a chance.
After listening to the podcast on the history of the union and how many times in the past pilots voted for concessions or no increases I'm a little worried also. Basically in the unions 45 yrs I think only 2 contracts were not a concession.
if I had been here as long as lew I'd be worried as well.
Flight plan 2020 is outdated already and in that there was too much rhetoric about helping the company as well. Think JAs. What is written in the FP is not even close to what guys are saying online or through social media.
remember how the platform was 1 billion short of what we were told was the floor? That passed by 86%
In just how much this group was willing to sell everything else for the ability to sell back their vacation worried me.
I think we'll do ok but I dont think we'll do what we need to.
Itll be as underwhelming as delta contract.
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