7 year SWA pilot
07-16-2023 | 05:36 AM
#11
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,937
Likes: 0
From: 717A
I am an adolescent airline pilot. A decade at Delta, military before that.
I’ve been through two contract cycles. Both times I felt drug down to this feeling of anger and disdain for my company. I felt they would run it into the ground and didn’t care about a thing. Then, poof, a contact and overnight the lanyards went away and everyone seemed happier. Like nothing happened. Nobody seems angry at Delta anymore, just frustrated at things we could do better (standard pilot feelings). There isn’t a common feeling of angst anymore.
My point, if there is one, is that it’s probably not as bad as it seems. The checks are cashing. The walls are coming down with new age contracts at Delta and United. It was a generational change cycle in regards to contracts. That’s why they took so long. That with Covid. Seven years is a long time to walk away from a great company. And southwest IS a great company.
Good luck with your decision.
I’ve been through two contract cycles. Both times I felt drug down to this feeling of anger and disdain for my company. I felt they would run it into the ground and didn’t care about a thing. Then, poof, a contact and overnight the lanyards went away and everyone seemed happier. Like nothing happened. Nobody seems angry at Delta anymore, just frustrated at things we could do better (standard pilot feelings). There isn’t a common feeling of angst anymore.
My point, if there is one, is that it’s probably not as bad as it seems. The checks are cashing. The walls are coming down with new age contracts at Delta and United. It was a generational change cycle in regards to contracts. That’s why they took so long. That with Covid. Seven years is a long time to walk away from a great company. And southwest IS a great company.
Good luck with your decision.
07-16-2023 | 05:48 AM
#12
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 159
Likes: 7
Thats mostly just a myth, the only difference is that future retirements here are linear and pretty evened out over the years. That being said we've also hired around 4000 since 2021.
07-16-2023 | 06:33 AM
#13
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,259
Likes: 240
From: B737CA
Thank you for that. So, can you tell me the projected system seniority, where a 45 year old hired today would end up at 65 and what that seniority can hold?
07-16-2023 | 06:36 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 1
The hiring gap between DL and UA has continually shrunk in the last two years.
https://www.fapa.aero/pilot-hiring-history
https://www.fapa.aero/pilot-hiring-history
07-16-2023 | 06:37 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 9
From: Student of the game
Great tool above. It’ll show you how truly stagnant their list will be for you. 10 years to get out of bottom 30% company wide.
07-16-2023 | 06:45 AM
#16
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 54
Likes: 3
</sarcasm>
07-16-2023 | 07:03 AM
#17
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
http://widgetseniority.com
Great tool above. It’ll show you how truly stagnant their list will be for you. 10 years to get out of bottom 30% company wide.
Great tool above. It’ll show you how truly stagnant their list will be for you. 10 years to get out of bottom 30% company wide.
After 9 years I went to Delta, mostly for QOL.
Obviously geography is important here too, our last category bid was in June (AE) NYC 737A went to a person 1 year on property. But, it’s those options that make it interesting.
I was part of the super class, 107 new hires. Avg age was 36. Quite a large range of ages, and for some of that older crowd they just want a semi-retirement job.
It’s always good to take seniority effects into consideration, such as the breakneck hiring SWA has been doing (of mostly 20-something’s.)
07-16-2023 | 08:28 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 86
All great points. I'll add another. I was USAir in the late 90s, and every day the news media and the company would cry that the airline was only days from closing the doors. They furloughed till they hired then hired till they furloughed. They went through bankruptcy twice while I was on furlough. They closed their biggest hub and tried everything from Metrojet to MidAtlantic to keep the lights on. So when the recall finally came in around 07 or so, I just assumed they were going out of business eventually. Wasn't worth gambling my family's future on them.
Look at them now.
What I didn't understand then, and I wish I had, was that the seniority number was worth something. The likelihood that they were going to liquidate was slim to none and thanks to good fragmentation language that number would likely result in employment at some airline even if USAir were sold in pieces. Yeah they had a tough decade or two, but now my classmates from there are doing pretty darned good - far ahead of where I am on career earnings, retirement, and schedule.
What's the old saying? Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There's still a lot of value in SWA and the likelihood that BoJo hangs a going out of business sign on the door is much lower than the company being sold in pieces and pilots going with planes. Might as well take that seniority with you.
May you live in interesting times.
(PS - If you were hired prior to 2014 you should probably go through. Especially if you're based in Dallas. 😏
Look at them now.
What I didn't understand then, and I wish I had, was that the seniority number was worth something. The likelihood that they were going to liquidate was slim to none and thanks to good fragmentation language that number would likely result in employment at some airline even if USAir were sold in pieces. Yeah they had a tough decade or two, but now my classmates from there are doing pretty darned good - far ahead of where I am on career earnings, retirement, and schedule.
What's the old saying? Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There's still a lot of value in SWA and the likelihood that BoJo hangs a going out of business sign on the door is much lower than the company being sold in pieces and pilots going with planes. Might as well take that seniority with you.
May you live in interesting times.
(PS - If you were hired prior to 2014 you should probably go through. Especially if you're based in Dallas. 😏
07-16-2023 | 08:28 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,568
Likes: 128
From: Left
Gone in 10 , I agree with you . In BK within 10 years, I would not bet against it .
07-16-2023 | 08:40 AM
#20
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 146
Likes: 5
I left SWA at just under six years and went to Widget. At my age it’s a crapshoot if I’ll see WB A, but I’ll hold NB A relatively quickly and/or WB B in short order as well. Biggest gain to me is that I can have my cake and eat it too (barring a cataclysmic event). Enjoy the life and pretty good coin of wide body FO and/or the financial gains as a narrow body Captain.
The transition to Widget has been easy, indoc quick and efficient, and now just enjoying days off while I wait for sims. Everyone I’ve met so far has been very nice, helpful, and professional.
At 7 years in, being able to hold CA at SWA would be a very difficult move to make. I was just below holding upgrade and it was super difficult for me. I’ll let you know at retirement if I made a good move, but for today I’m enjoying my new home, even though being a new hire isn’t glamorous. 🤪. Happy to discuss and share my path privately if it would help. Wish you luck in your journey.
Stay Frosty
The transition to Widget has been easy, indoc quick and efficient, and now just enjoying days off while I wait for sims. Everyone I’ve met so far has been very nice, helpful, and professional.
At 7 years in, being able to hold CA at SWA would be a very difficult move to make. I was just below holding upgrade and it was super difficult for me. I’ll let you know at retirement if I made a good move, but for today I’m enjoying my new home, even though being a new hire isn’t glamorous. 🤪. Happy to discuss and share my path privately if it would help. Wish you luck in your journey.
Stay Frosty
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