Union hints of acquisition
02-17-2025 | 06:11 AM
#551
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 691
Likes: 236
Well, it's about time! I say buy BOTH JB and Breeze (make Dave Neeleman really happy!) and double down on the A220 for future fleet growth - including forcing Airbus to finally build the proposed stretched A220 (the A220-500). The economics on the proposed A220-500 would be unmatched in that seat category - better ASM than both the A320 NEO and the 737 MAX 7 & 8. The merged airline should be the launch customer for the stretched version. It sounds like Airbus has been working hard to improve the supply chain issues associated with the A220.
Buying both JB and Breeze will immediately reduce fleet risk related to Boeing and it would provide more gate access to critical business centers like JFK & BOS. I assume the SWA board wants to add more high-margin business travelers to the SWA passenger mix, and JB would provide access to more business-focused markets. Buying Breeze would take out a low-cost competitor and provide immediate access to a desirable fleet type that SWA already knows well after it's evaluation of the A220. And logically, future combined fleet should focus on scaling the A220 (300/500), A321 NEO and B737 MAX (if certified & available) fleets over time.
So, those are my initial thoughts - fingers crossed that we see some strategic moves like this soon! And your lower backs will thank me once you move out of the B737 with those awful cockpit seats!
Buying both JB and Breeze will immediately reduce fleet risk related to Boeing and it would provide more gate access to critical business centers like JFK & BOS. I assume the SWA board wants to add more high-margin business travelers to the SWA passenger mix, and JB would provide access to more business-focused markets. Buying Breeze would take out a low-cost competitor and provide immediate access to a desirable fleet type that SWA already knows well after it's evaluation of the A220. And logically, future combined fleet should focus on scaling the A220 (300/500), A321 NEO and B737 MAX (if certified & available) fleets over time.
So, those are my initial thoughts - fingers crossed that we see some strategic moves like this soon! And your lower backs will thank me once you move out of the B737 with those awful cockpit seats!
02-17-2025 | 06:33 AM
#552
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
From: Left
Yeah, why not? 
I assume SWA's board wants to move SWA more to the business travel side and away from lower-margin, commoditized vacation travel (although that will always be a strong part of the SWA mix). Buying JB and Breeze (with it's multi-class interior on the A220) would be a step in the right direction if SWA wants to become more business oriented like the other legacies. I recognize that Breeze is not a direct competitor (very few routes overlap), but it's fleet type is attractive to SWA. Plus, I assume SWA would want to steer clear of more MAX orders and Allegiant is adding 50-100 MAX airplanes to its old Airbus fleet. Adding A321 NEOs from JB would be attractive because of the economics, ergonomics and transatlantic range - I would dump all of JB's older A320s over time and replace them with more efficient and versatile A220 300s & 500s.
Delta, JB, Breeze and Air Canada are all using A220s on a mix of short range and longer range flights. No doubt it provides a very efficient & flexible alternative to the MAX lineup and to older A320s that need to be phased out over time.
I assume SWA's board wants to move SWA more to the business travel side and away from lower-margin, commoditized vacation travel (although that will always be a strong part of the SWA mix). Buying JB and Breeze (with it's multi-class interior on the A220) would be a step in the right direction if SWA wants to become more business oriented like the other legacies. I recognize that Breeze is not a direct competitor (very few routes overlap), but it's fleet type is attractive to SWA. Plus, I assume SWA would want to steer clear of more MAX orders and Allegiant is adding 50-100 MAX airplanes to its old Airbus fleet. Adding A321 NEOs from JB would be attractive because of the economics, ergonomics and transatlantic range - I would dump all of JB's older A320s over time and replace them with more efficient and versatile A220 300s & 500s.
Delta, JB, Breeze and Air Canada are all using A220s on a mix of short range and longer range flights. No doubt it provides a very efficient & flexible alternative to the MAX lineup and to older A320s that need to be phased out over time.
02-17-2025 | 07:06 AM
#553
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 38
Yeah, why not?
........ of the economics, ergonomics and transatlantic range - I would dump all of JB's older A320s over time and replace them with more efficient and versatile A220 300s & 500s.
Delta, JB, Breeze and Air Canada are all using A220s on a mix of short range and longer range flights. No doubt it provides a very efficient & flexible alternative to the MAX lineup and to older A320s that need to be phased out over time.
........ of the economics, ergonomics and transatlantic range - I would dump all of JB's older A320s over time and replace them with more efficient and versatile A220 300s & 500s.
Delta, JB, Breeze and Air Canada are all using A220s on a mix of short range and longer range flights. No doubt it provides a very efficient & flexible alternative to the MAX lineup and to older A320s that need to be phased out over time.
), what's your obsession with making "sales pitch" type discussions on a pilot forum for A220s?
02-17-2025 | 07:29 AM
#555
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 371
Likes: 2
Southwest Joins IATA, Unlocking a World...
"Just in time for Valentine’s Day, we learned the International Air Transport Association, IATA, last week welcomed Southwest as an official member of the trade organization representing the world’s airlines. Southwest now joins an association of some 340 IATA member air carriers that handle more than 80% of global air traffic. The membership gives Southwest a voice in shaping the policies and procedures that govern our industry, and more access to resources that help level the playing field with more capabilities for us to be competitive.
We quickly moved forward with applying for IATA membership after receiving the required precursor of a Safety-centered IOSA certification in mid-January. Our membership was fast-tracked by IATA, which has long hoped to have Southwest among its members. With so much focus on standing up capabilities and enhancements in our Transformational journey, this was the right time for Southwest to join IATA. We will benefit in several ways, including:
Airline Partnerships: Following the successful launch last week of the first phase of our Icelandair partnership, IATA membership now gives Southwest an ability to streamline the commercial processes and associated legal reviews that will allow us to engage in agreements with other carriers. This is an enabling and accelerating capability to grow our portfolio of airline partners.
More Influence in Industry Topics: IATA committees drive policy for our industry across the globe, especially those related to the standards and procedures of how carriers work together. We now have a voice at the table to represent our unique network and operation, advocate for our People and our Customers, and strengthen Southwest’s position in areaswhere we need to be compliant and competitive.
Data, Discounts, and More: As an IATA member, the association can benefit from all the data and insights we can uniquely contribute as one of the world’s largest airlines under a single operating certificate. We will receive discounted rates on industry materials such as procedural and regulatory manuals that will govern the transportation we provide (through our airline partners) for Customers traveling new geographies around the world on Southwest-issued tickets. These IATA perks, quite simply, save money and associated effort.
We didn’t enter lightly into this IATA affiliation and I’m sharing on behalf of our Leaders a lot of thanks to all who contributed the momentum along this path, including the nearly 30 lines of business we initially consulted to ask, ‘how would IATA membership support and benefit you.’ We’ll share more soon!"
We quickly moved forward with applying for IATA membership after receiving the required precursor of a Safety-centered IOSA certification in mid-January. Our membership was fast-tracked by IATA, which has long hoped to have Southwest among its members. With so much focus on standing up capabilities and enhancements in our Transformational journey, this was the right time for Southwest to join IATA. We will benefit in several ways, including:
Airline Partnerships: Following the successful launch last week of the first phase of our Icelandair partnership, IATA membership now gives Southwest an ability to streamline the commercial processes and associated legal reviews that will allow us to engage in agreements with other carriers. This is an enabling and accelerating capability to grow our portfolio of airline partners.
More Influence in Industry Topics: IATA committees drive policy for our industry across the globe, especially those related to the standards and procedures of how carriers work together. We now have a voice at the table to represent our unique network and operation, advocate for our People and our Customers, and strengthen Southwest’s position in areaswhere we need to be compliant and competitive.
Data, Discounts, and More: As an IATA member, the association can benefit from all the data and insights we can uniquely contribute as one of the world’s largest airlines under a single operating certificate. We will receive discounted rates on industry materials such as procedural and regulatory manuals that will govern the transportation we provide (through our airline partners) for Customers traveling new geographies around the world on Southwest-issued tickets. These IATA perks, quite simply, save money and associated effort.
We didn’t enter lightly into this IATA affiliation and I’m sharing on behalf of our Leaders a lot of thanks to all who contributed the momentum along this path, including the nearly 30 lines of business we initially consulted to ask, ‘how would IATA membership support and benefit you.’ We’ll share more soon!"
02-17-2025 | 07:59 AM
#556
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
From: Left
I also know several pilots at Delta and JB who fly the A220 - and most love it compared to the 737 or previous Airbus type they have flown. And of course it is NOT perfect (especially with the engine issues) - people will have their own opinions. But it is comfortable for passengers, very versatile in terms of range, and cost efficient.
And no, I don't work for anyone affiliated with the program or selling the airplanes. If given a choice between flying on a 737/A320 or A220 at equal ticket prices, I will choose the A220 as a passenger every time. And considering how fuel efficient the airplane is, I would expect more airlines to swap out older/less efficient 737-700/800s and A319/20s for the A220 going forward to grow profits.
Big potential limiting factor will be Airbus's ability to produce the A220s fast enough (still working to improve the supply chain) - including the proposed stretch A220-500. That airplane will be a category killer in terms of CASM. Hope we hear about the A220-500 launch at the next big air show this summer. Delta, JB, Air Canada, Breeze and Air France have all publically stated they want the A220-500. See this article: https://www.airdatanews.com/airbus-a...-the-a220-500/
02-17-2025 | 08:10 AM
#557
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 718
Likes: 17
"Just in time for Valentine’s Day, we learned the International Air Transport Association, IATA, last week welcomed Southwest as an official member of the trade organization representing the world’s airlines. Southwest now joins an association of some 340 IATA member air carriers that handle more than 80% of global air traffic. The membership gives Southwest a voice in shaping the policies and procedures that govern our industry, and more access to resources that help level the playing field with more capabilities for us to be competitive.
We quickly moved forward with applying for IATA membership after receiving the required precursor of a Safety-centered IOSA certification in mid-January. Our membership was fast-tracked by IATA, which has long hoped to have Southwest among its members. With so much focus on standing up capabilities and enhancements in our Transformational journey, this was the right time for Southwest to join IATA. We will benefit in several ways, including:
Airline Partnerships: Following the successful launch last week of the first phase of our Icelandair partnership, IATA membership now gives Southwest an ability to streamline the commercial processes and associated legal reviews that will allow us to engage in agreements with other carriers. This is an enabling and accelerating capability to grow our portfolio of airline partners.
More Influence in Industry Topics: IATA committees drive policy for our industry across the globe, especially those related to the standards and procedures of how carriers work together. We now have a voice at the table to represent our unique network and operation, advocate for our People and our Customers, and strengthen Southwest’s position in areaswhere we need to be compliant and competitive.
Data, Discounts, and More: As an IATA member, the association can benefit from all the data and insights we can uniquely contribute as one of the world’s largest airlines under a single operating certificate. We will receive discounted rates on industry materials such as procedural and regulatory manuals that will govern the transportation we provide (through our airline partners) for Customers traveling new geographies around the world on Southwest-issued tickets. These IATA perks, quite simply, save money and associated effort.
We didn’t enter lightly into this IATA affiliation and I’m sharing on behalf of our Leaders a lot of thanks to all who contributed the momentum along this path, including the nearly 30 lines of business we initially consulted to ask, ‘how would IATA membership support and benefit you.’ We’ll share more soon!"
We quickly moved forward with applying for IATA membership after receiving the required precursor of a Safety-centered IOSA certification in mid-January. Our membership was fast-tracked by IATA, which has long hoped to have Southwest among its members. With so much focus on standing up capabilities and enhancements in our Transformational journey, this was the right time for Southwest to join IATA. We will benefit in several ways, including:
Airline Partnerships: Following the successful launch last week of the first phase of our Icelandair partnership, IATA membership now gives Southwest an ability to streamline the commercial processes and associated legal reviews that will allow us to engage in agreements with other carriers. This is an enabling and accelerating capability to grow our portfolio of airline partners.
More Influence in Industry Topics: IATA committees drive policy for our industry across the globe, especially those related to the standards and procedures of how carriers work together. We now have a voice at the table to represent our unique network and operation, advocate for our People and our Customers, and strengthen Southwest’s position in areaswhere we need to be compliant and competitive.
Data, Discounts, and More: As an IATA member, the association can benefit from all the data and insights we can uniquely contribute as one of the world’s largest airlines under a single operating certificate. We will receive discounted rates on industry materials such as procedural and regulatory manuals that will govern the transportation we provide (through our airline partners) for Customers traveling new geographies around the world on Southwest-issued tickets. These IATA perks, quite simply, save money and associated effort.
We didn’t enter lightly into this IATA affiliation and I’m sharing on behalf of our Leaders a lot of thanks to all who contributed the momentum along this path, including the nearly 30 lines of business we initially consulted to ask, ‘how would IATA membership support and benefit you.’ We’ll share more soon!"
02-17-2025 | 09:03 AM
#559
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 288
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Well, it's about time! I say buy BOTH JB and Breeze (make Dave Neeleman really happy!) and double down on the A220 for future fleet growth - including forcing Airbus to finally build the proposed stretched A220 (the A220-500). The economics on the proposed A220-500 would be unmatched in that seat category - better ASM than both the A320 NEO and the 737 MAX 7 & 8. The merged airline should be the launch customer for the stretched version. It sounds like Airbus has been working hard to improve the supply chain issues associated with the A220.
Buying both JB and Breeze will immediately reduce fleet risk related to Boeing and it would provide more gate access to critical business centers like JFK & BOS. I assume the SWA board wants to add more high-margin business travelers to the SWA passenger mix, and JB would provide access to more business-focused markets. Buying Breeze would take out a low-cost competitor and provide immediate access to a desirable fleet type that SWA already knows well after it's evaluation of the A220. And logically, future combined fleet should focus on scaling the A220 (300/500), A321 NEO and B737 MAX (if certified & available) fleets over time.
So, those are my initial thoughts - fingers crossed that we see some strategic moves like this soon! And your lower backs will thank me once you move out of the B737 with those awful cockpit seats!
Buying both JB and Breeze will immediately reduce fleet risk related to Boeing and it would provide more gate access to critical business centers like JFK & BOS. I assume the SWA board wants to add more high-margin business travelers to the SWA passenger mix, and JB would provide access to more business-focused markets. Buying Breeze would take out a low-cost competitor and provide immediate access to a desirable fleet type that SWA already knows well after it's evaluation of the A220. And logically, future combined fleet should focus on scaling the A220 (300/500), A321 NEO and B737 MAX (if certified & available) fleets over time.
So, those are my initial thoughts - fingers crossed that we see some strategic moves like this soon! And your lower backs will thank me once you move out of the B737 with those awful cockpit seats!
- We’re getting our MAX8s at greatly discounted MAX7 prices. The rumor is about 30 million a piece. That’s insanely cheap.
- We have a management team that’s afraid of it’s own shadow. You underestimate their reluctance to change and innovation. Example: our upcoming “premium cabin”. What a sorry excuse for anything premium.
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re getting a different fleet type unless it’s through a merger and I don’t see that happening either.
You really have to work at SWA for a few years to see just how resistant to change they really are. It’s absurd.
Last edited by WHACKMASTER; 02-17-2025 at 09:18 AM.
02-17-2025 | 09:16 AM
#560
Entire month in GA
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 30
Likes: 22
Good question. I have watched that program since its inception many years ago - and was not a fan of Boeing trying to kill the program when Bombardier experienced debt issues (bit off more than they could chew with the C-Series). I am a fan of the airplane from the passenger perspective having flown on it at both Delta and JB (Breeze doesn't serve my city yet). And I am a fan from a technology perspective - yeah, the P&W engines have not been good, but the rest of the airplane is a technology upgrade - have you seen the cockpit? It's well thought out, advanced (no archaic overhead panel like in the 737), comfortable and a great compromise between the best of Boeing and Airbus cockpits. See a link here (many pilots I talk to have never been on an A220): https://www.airliners.net/photo/Delt...FG04x9/wFGazO4
I also know several pilots at Delta and JB who fly the A220 - and most love it compared to the 737 or previous Airbus type they have flown. And of course it is NOT perfect (especially with the engine issues) - people will have their own opinions. But it is comfortable for passengers, very versatile in terms of range, and cost efficient.
And no, I don't work for anyone affiliated with the program or selling the airplanes. If given a choice between flying on a 737/A320 or A220 at equal ticket prices, I will choose the A220 as a passenger every time. And considering how fuel efficient the airplane is, I would expect more airlines to swap out older/less efficient 737-700/800s and A319/20s for the A220 going forward to grow profits.
Big potential limiting factor will be Airbus's ability to produce the A220s fast enough (still working to improve the supply chain) - including the proposed stretch A220-500. That airplane will be a category killer in terms of CASM. Hope we hear about the A220-500 launch at the next big air show this summer. Delta, JB, Air Canada, Breeze and Air France have all publically stated they want the A220-500. See this article: https://www.airdatanews.com/airbus-a...-the-a220-500/
I also know several pilots at Delta and JB who fly the A220 - and most love it compared to the 737 or previous Airbus type they have flown. And of course it is NOT perfect (especially with the engine issues) - people will have their own opinions. But it is comfortable for passengers, very versatile in terms of range, and cost efficient.
And no, I don't work for anyone affiliated with the program or selling the airplanes. If given a choice between flying on a 737/A320 or A220 at equal ticket prices, I will choose the A220 as a passenger every time. And considering how fuel efficient the airplane is, I would expect more airlines to swap out older/less efficient 737-700/800s and A319/20s for the A220 going forward to grow profits.
Big potential limiting factor will be Airbus's ability to produce the A220s fast enough (still working to improve the supply chain) - including the proposed stretch A220-500. That airplane will be a category killer in terms of CASM. Hope we hear about the A220-500 launch at the next big air show this summer. Delta, JB, Air Canada, Breeze and Air France have all publically stated they want the A220-500. See this article: https://www.airdatanews.com/airbus-a...-the-a220-500/
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