Class Dates
10-16-2025 | 05:54 PM
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,718
Likes: 335
10-16-2025 | 06:13 PM
#162
weekends off? Nope...
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,448
Likes: 174
Nobody is being downgraded involuntarily, which would not incur a training lock. Doing it yourself to avoid a commute gives you a 6 mo lock and with displacements according to SWAPA…who knows when you’d get back as a CA vs right of return. Being one of the more sr kicked out (if it happens), I’d be one of the first back in. When figuring a $120ish/tfp pay difference…that’s a hard pill to swallow.
10-16-2025 | 07:16 PM
#163
More Cowbell!!!
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 386
Likes: 6
From: Spreading the LUV from the "Write" seat!!!
Nobody is being downgraded involuntarily, which would not incur a training lock. Doing it yourself to avoid a commute gives you a 6 mo lock and with displacements according to SWAPA…who knows when you’d get back as a CA vs right of return. Being one of the more sr kicked out (if it happens), I’d be one of the first back in. When figuring a $120ish/tfp pay difference…that’s a hard pill to swallow.
A displaced Captain will not be seat locked if he displaces to First Officer, even if he had Captain bids below the First Officer position he displaced to.
So you could get displaced to Denver FO, try it for a few months, then bid back to Captain in a different domicile if the senior FO in Denver isn’t paying the bills. However, you would then lose your DRR because you changed your standing bid after getting displaced. Year 9 and above FO pay is 30% below Captain pay. So you’d have to average 30% more TFP to make the same amount of money.
10-16-2025 | 08:04 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,599
Likes: 443
Honestly, being a senior FO, you can make junior captain money without working too hard. Where you lose is in sick pulls, vacation, and other nonfly events and that isn't insignificant.
I personally wouldn't want to downgrade, but I flew with someone who did in Denver fairly recently, and he was doing just fine. He got sick of the weekend reserve grind and decided it wasn't worth it. I get it. It's too bad that the union gave away the Lance Captain program, as it offered a great way to cushion the blow and really helped grease the open time market for both seats.
I personally wouldn't want to downgrade, but I flew with someone who did in Denver fairly recently, and he was doing just fine. He got sick of the weekend reserve grind and decided it wasn't worth it. I get it. It's too bad that the union gave away the Lance Captain program, as it offered a great way to cushion the blow and really helped grease the open time market for both seats.
10-17-2025 | 04:59 AM
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,718
Likes: 335
How do you figure $120? I don’t see a longevity year with a $120 difference between seats. Some steps it’s less than $100 difference…and the relative seniority and bidding power you’d gain closes the gap even more. The real difference in pay would be negligible if you put some effort into it.
10-17-2025 | 05:00 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,718
Likes: 335
You’re Denver based. If your vacancy bid is Denver CA first, Denver FO second and you get displaced out of Denver Captain you will not incur a 6 month seat lock for getting displaced out of Denver Captain. See Section 8.E.1. The annotated CBA even states:
A displaced Captain will not be seat locked if he displaces to First Officer, even if he had Captain bids below the First Officer position he displaced to.
So you could get displaced to Denver FO, try it for a few months, then bid back to Captain in a different domicile if the senior FO in Denver isn’t paying the bills. However, you would then lose your DRR because you changed your standing bid after getting displaced. Year 9 and above FO pay is 30% below Captain pay. So you’d have to average 30% more TFP to make the same amount of money.
A displaced Captain will not be seat locked if he displaces to First Officer, even if he had Captain bids below the First Officer position he displaced to.
So you could get displaced to Denver FO, try it for a few months, then bid back to Captain in a different domicile if the senior FO in Denver isn’t paying the bills. However, you would then lose your DRR because you changed your standing bid after getting displaced. Year 9 and above FO pay is 30% below Captain pay. So you’d have to average 30% more TFP to make the same amount of money.
I’ve been doing a 160 tfp avg per month this year. To earn the same I’d have to do over 200 as a FO. Prob not impossible being top 30/600+ but it’d take a bit of work.
10-17-2025 | 07:34 AM
#168
weekends off? Nope...
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,448
Likes: 174
ok that checks. Now factor in your relative seniority and bidding power. No 11 year FO is flying much if anything at straight pay if they know the game even at a JV level…now you’re making 412/tfp vs 392 if counting the 20% add ons.
10-17-2025 | 12:07 PM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 289
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
10-17-2025 | 12:09 PM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 289
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
For me it would depend on trip quality and relative seniority in seat as opposed to what I have now.
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