OscartheGrouch

While I really don't agree with all of what the BP posts, I would ask (since you asked) where are you on the Delta seniority list? My info is available to anyone who wishes to dig a little. I am not concerned because I don't believe I have anything to hide. Not saying you do but yet you allude in a post that precedes mine that you had two former SWA folks in your NH class. I have flown with FO's who left DAL to come to SWA. It works back and forth both ways at times. Please give me an approximate (no specifics) so I can understand at what point in history your fellow classmates left SWA. As you said, timing is everything and their departure is probably explainable. Inquiring minds wish to know, so to speak.

The Oscar

80ktsClamp

Well, Oscar... since you ask I turned down SW for DL 6 years ago. I've had recent inquiries from some that I know at WN in regards to when our hiring will begin with interest on jumping ship.

There tends to be some flow back and forth toward the bottom. We had some leave FDX to come over to DL when I was hired, and vice versa the 2010 hires that have been stuck on the bottom for 3 years have had a few leave for FDX.

With the total stagnation of the bottom of WN for the next few years, you'll see a few leave I'm sure. That's pretty much the way the cookie crumbles.

OscartheGrouch

80kts,

I would have to agree with you totally with the current situation. If you wish to be in the left seat it will be awhile here at SWA. Easy for me to say but the left seat really is only a seat. I have already flown the best aircraft I could have (in my opinion, and it is not not the 737). Left seat, right seat in any aircraft is just driving a bus.

DAL will have movement that SWA will not have for a long time. In the end for me it was about quality of life and I will compare mine to anyone at any airline.

I just flew with a well qualified FO who left JB after 5 years. When I asked him if his intentions were to stay he was emphatic that he wanted to be here at SWA. There will be an ebb and flow until we are all replaced by UAV's. The cookie crumbles and regrets only make for a miserable existence.

Have a great Easter!

The Oscar

80ktsClamp

Happy Easter, Oscar!

Mergers are really no fun for anyone unless you're number 1. "Synergies" are found, meaning the company finds plenty of ways to make 1+1= <2 by a pretty good margin. It makes for a good few years of stagnation.

What was your favorite bird from the left seat?

And I don't blame the B6 guy diving over there one bit... the only large carrier with fewer retirements than the combined WN/FL is B6... and they are worse by a pretty good margin! Plus the much lower pay and awful healthcare costs... WN would be a no brainer.

Like you said, living dwelling on the regrets is how you make a miserable career. Outlook and how you deal with it make so much of a difference.

Tell Gary thanks for the 717s, btw. Things are looking up over here on progression with a nice kick start from the arrival of the McBoeing, haha.

Justdoinmyjob

Jan, 2001. Low 9000s. There was also United, FedEx and UPS guys in the class.

I'm sure you have. The ones I know about were hired at Delta in 08-10. Understandable since they saw stagnation in their future. I'm also sure that when we start hiring, there will be some who leave SWA for Delta due to the same thing. There is always churn at the bottom.

My contention was that BP seems very angry at the thought of anyone who hasn't paid "Dues" jumping in front of him on the SL. I saw the same thing happen during our merger from both N and S guys. Invariably, they were junior too and scared of where they would fall on the list, even to the point of being furloughed. Yes, I know SWA has never furloughed. Delta had never furloughed in 65+ years until they did in the 90s. Never say never.

Smokey23

Why Delta Airlines are Ruing the Day they Bought their own Refinery

Brilliant!

80ktsClamp

That's a pretty assertive title considering it'll take a couple years before anyone can actually know whether or not the refinery purchase was a good idea. Mgmt is reporting that it's working out well so far... we'll see!

gloopy

Not to mention that the analcysts are blown away by the concept that it wasn't ever purchased to "make a profit" in the first place, because said "profit" would come from keeping the crack spread which it profited off of in the first place as high as possible.

I'm sure DL could sell to itself at triple market price and make an awesome "profit" but that would be all smoke and mirrors that, hopefully, the analcysts would be able to see. Then again they can't see the iron clad mega billion dollar RJ debt because its ever so thinly veiled and off the books but whatever.

The refinery wasn't purchased for it to "make a profit." It was purchased to lower the net price of DL's largest expense by an amount more than it costs to acquire and operate thus lowering the outbound cash flow of the airline. As a side bonus a portion of the volitility was significantly mitigated as well which helps long term planning substantially.

And as RA is fond of *respectfully* reminding these chicken little alancysts; it costs about as much as a single widebody aircraft. Even if it ends up being a complete bust, which at this point seems like quite the opposite of what's happening, its a small gamble in the grand scheme of things. DL has lost many, many, many, many billions of dollars on other analcyst heralded decisions like overbuying almost a thousand RJ's at peak real estate bubble prices thinking you were going to forever fly the world 50 seats at a time and messing around buying billions in regionals only to gut one and sell another for nickles on the dollar, stock buybacks at textbook price peaks, selling oil hedges during troughs, gifting Jet Blue a terminal in BOS by overbuilding and moving into a billion dollar boon doggle (the Taj Mullin) only to use less than half its capacity, the redonkulous Song experiment which proved you can hire someone on Madison Avenue to unlock such wonders of aviation management for you like the more seats in a plane equals lower CASM!, etc.

It doesn't matter if its "profitable" as a refinery, because DL didn't buy it to opeate as a stand alone refinery to make a profit. Apples and crankshafts. Sounds good in an analcysts rant though.

Purple Drank

I think you're missing the reason Delta purchased the refinery (hint: it wasn't to make a profit on the facility). Or perhaps you're just unable to accept that a competitor is taking over SWA's (former) fuel advantage.

It's already one of those "why didn't I think of that?" moves, which you assumed SWA had a monopoly on. I have to say it was a great move--and I'm far from a company cheerleader.

Anyway, thanks again for the cheap 717s...and for all the HVCs you sent us from AirTran. Sorry to hear about the demise of the SWA "cult," er, I mean "culture."

Avgwhitemale

Well said purple....I too am not a DAL cheerleader but the truth is we save nearly $.07 / gal of fuel with the Trainer Oil Refirnery. SWA's fuel advantage is gone and now they have classier commercials. Hmmmm...rutro... The SWA flight attendants do look a bit out of place waltzing through the ATL. ATL just isn't a good place for those camp councilor uniforms.