Smokey23

The early systems installed on a few aircraft had larger radomes. The current radome on most all the -700s & -800s is pretty compact, and the aft upper fuselage is a fairly low-drag location.

Bush Pilot

That there's pretty funny.

I guess that's why we bought the competition, sold off their POS 717's and graced their ungrateful pilots some RSW seniority. You're welcome.

Yeah, we really needed the tranny to expand. Seeya in OAKtown.

aupilot

Why should the pilots be grateful, AirTran was doing fine on their own and did not need SWA?

I know it is hard for many SWA pilots to believe but not everyone wants to fly for SWA.

Bush Pilot

And NO ONE at SWA wanted to fly for the tranny. So, you do the math on the rest of it.

johnso29

Well the merger happened for one of two reasons:

1) AT was a threat as a competitor

2)SWA reached it's domestic organic growth peak, and the quickest way to reach the Caribbean/Hawaii market was to buy AT.

Hmmmmmmmm.........


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/bu...8air.html?_r=0

With opportunities to grow drying up, Southwest had clamored to get access to markets that it had once shunned, especially as it sought out business travelers who were asking for flights to the main airports in New York and Washington. Southwest said the acquisition would open the door to Atlanta, the biggest hole in its network. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, the nation’s busiest airport, is Delta’s hub; AirTran is the second-largest operator there.

Southwest has been stymied in its efforts to break into the New York market until recently. It has a few landing and take-off rights, called slots, at La Guardia Airport. Only in August, as part of the federal approval of the United-Continental merger, had Southwest obtained some slots at Newark Liberty International Airport. Southwest also flies to Long Island MacArthur Airport, and AirTran serves Westchester County Airport.

Bush Pilot

and then they promptly turned around and:

sold off 88 planes
set forth to reduce ATL by at least half its size
cut overlapping flights
put all Hawaiian flying on indefinite hold

Don't even think for one minute I'll take my talking points on SWA growth issues from the NY Slimes.

Airline CEO's say what they want to say and the media does the selling for them. It's always a self fulfilling prophecy. Look around you. The industry is flush with excuses.

It's not that SWA couldn't grow organically, it was all about putting its biggest competitor out of business. We all know that.

You guys keep playing the pity card. I know why you do it. It's been working so well for you. Eventually that well is gonna dry up. You won't find any sympathetic ears in the cockpit.

johnso29

I don't work for AirTran or Southwest. If you need articles from other sources, they're out there. But yes, it was because SWA needed instant access to the Caribbean/Hawaii. SWA hit a domestic organic growth wall.

Could they have grown into those markets on their own? Yes, but nowhere near as quick without the AT purchase. Lack of ETOPS approval, a modern day reservation system, and international ops specs are just a few of the hurdles SWA needed to clear on their own.

Smokey23

Got it. So you know even less from where you speak about SWA/ATN.

Let's clear up a few things:

1) SWA did not need, nor did they get "instant access to the Caribbean/Hawaii." ATN is rapidly being reduced to operating only their near international flights while SWA gets the SWA side of the operation international qualified. This should be completed by the Fall....almost two and a half years after the ATN acquisition was announced. It is highly debatable how much that timeline was shortened by purchasing ATN. IOW, if SWA had a mind to start working towards near-international ops back in Oct 2010, wouldn't we be in about the same place right now regardless of ATN? In fact you could argue we'd be FURTHER along....not having to deal with all the distractions of the integration issues.

Just this past week we finally started true code-sharing among the SWA and ATN networks (way to go, IT )....so much for that international "instant access" for SWA passengers.

2) ATN does not currently have ETOPS certification nor do they have any service to Hawaii

3) SWA has no plans to keep ATN's existing reservation system. A completely new one is currently under development.

So where exactly has acquiring ATN helped SWA get international access? Look at ATN's route map....they are not exactly dominating Mexico, Caribbean, or northern Central America markets currently. My contention is that SWA is largely building up a near-international capability that would have been there regardless of the ATN acquisition. The only real benefit we are obtaining is the easy handover to SWA metal of the handful of near-international destinations that ATN currently serves. There will be many, many more destinations added to those in the coming years, I predict.

aupilot

You are the one calling the AirTran pilots ungrateful. My point is, why should the AirTran pilots be greatful for something most of them did not want?

GizmoNC

DL fought SWA for years getting into ATL. SWA bought FL to get into ATL. Southwest bought FL to get into DCA. DCA is very slot controlled and when all those slots went on sale SWA did not bid as high as JetBlue. SWA bought FL due to organic growth, with the purchase of FL SWA grew 25% over night. If you think the 717 deal is over think again when DL takes the 717 they are going to need gates in ATL for them. The former FL gates only fit the 717 and not 737. So SWA might have leased them to DL but somewhere in the deal there has got to be gates for those 717 for DL and 737 gates for SW.