"NO" path(s) forward
10-06-2015, 11:50 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Permanent Right
Posts: 125
Thinking strategically here, a couple of points. First, never use the cumbersome process of the RLA as an excuse to give in to something you don't like. It's always going to be there, so work with it. Yes it takes a lot of time, but so did getting all your ratings, hours and climbing the ladder to a major. Second, if you think the TA is something you can't live with, something which doesn't reward the hard work and sacrifices you've made at SWA, or if you want to see real improvements in areas you feel are important...simply vote no. Don't worry that the sky will fall if you do. Keep in mind the company is in the best financial shape it's ever been in. That isn't going to change with a no vote. A solid no vote sends a message to this, and perhaps more importantly, to future BOD and negotiating committees to be more diligent in meeting member expectations before they bring an agreement up for a vote (Delta is a good example). You only have a limited number of contracts during your career at SWA (or any major). Make each one count, especially during periods of record profits. Now is the time to get improvements in every area of the contract. You will not always be faced with such a favorable negotiating climate financially as you have now. Make it count for something. 
10-06-2015, 12:39 PM
#62
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by shoelu
I'll go you one better!
If we as individuals decided to stop picking up open time the operational disruption would cripple SWA. I haven't picked up anything in over a year and I won't until we have a ratified deal.
The schedule Southwest runs simply cannot be operated without voluntary pick ups. It is up to us to take a stand as individuals.
If we as individuals decided to stop picking up open time the operational disruption would cripple SWA. I haven't picked up anything in over a year and I won't until we have a ratified deal.
The schedule Southwest runs simply cannot be operated without voluntary pick ups. It is up to us to take a stand as individuals.
IMHO, same thing goes for a strike. As ****ed as guys our, we're currently working under a pretty good contract compared to our brothers: control our scope, great schedule flexibility (once off reserve), pay per day of work better than anyone else (yes, we work hard for that), and an overall pretty happy pilot group (minus WHACK-M, he hates everyone and everything about SWA). No way a strike vote would pass unless something seriously drastic got folks fired up.
So I'm as curious about what lies ahead as everyone when this thing goes down in flames. NO vote cast today OBW.
10-06-2015, 05:33 PM
#64
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by Sr. Barco
Forget about the money. Four years from now your W-2 will be the same under this contract anyway after they sneak PBS on property. There's so much more to this contract than money. And if the next contract has less monetary value we vote it down as well.
There is NO WAY PBS happens as a result of this vote. It's a chicken little panic attack argument. It's a snipe hunt trying to scare up NO votes.
We agree to meet and talk about a an alternate system. Just like they agreed to meet and talk about changing the open time system. Means nothing, will amount to nothing.
We'd have to vote on the result of any talk and there's ZERO chance of PBS passing a vote here.
If you think this TA really is a back door to PBS then there's no reasoning with you.
10-06-2015, 05:40 PM
#65
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by V169
I don't trust the monkey-$hit tossing zoo that SWAPA has become to squeeze any more money out of this deal. Plan B seems to be tossing out the President and Negotiating Committee and starting over from scratch. Until SWAPA starts being run like a billion-dollar business instead of an after-school club we will only keep getting the same results.
When they banned the Akins video, they showed that they want to control all the information and no allow any opinions that don't fit their view.
I haven't even seen the video, but I'm ****ed that they think I can't judge for myself. Not going to vote until I see it.
10-06-2015, 06:03 PM
#66
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,446
1seat, if you can, read the Vegas update from JW that just got sent out. I am not going to tell anyone how to vote because we are all grown adults and everyone I have flown with has been pretty smart, most smarter than me. I will say, however, that fear and apathy seem to be the top two reasons for guys voting yes. That makes me sad.
I have read the TA repeatedly. There are some gains there, but I don't feel (again, just my opinion) that they are worth what we are giving up for them. I think that this is our one chance to take a stand for ourselves. We aren't going to get everything that we are asking for, but we can surely do better than this.
I agree with you that the PBS thing is a total red herring.
I have read the TA repeatedly. There are some gains there, but I don't feel (again, just my opinion) that they are worth what we are giving up for them. I think that this is our one chance to take a stand for ourselves. We aren't going to get everything that we are asking for, but we can surely do better than this.
I agree with you that the PBS thing is a total red herring.
10-06-2015, 06:20 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Posts: 495
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
This is the dumbest reason to vote no. Really dumb.
There is NO WAY PBS happens as a result of this vote. It's a chicken little panic attack argument. It's a snipe hunt trying to scare up NO votes.
We agree to meet and talk about a an alternate system. Just like they agreed to meet and talk about changing the open time system. Means nothing, will amount to nothing.
We'd have to vote on the result of any talk and there's ZERO chance of PBS passing a vote here.
If you think this TA really is a back door to PBS then there's no reasoning with you.
There is NO WAY PBS happens as a result of this vote. It's a chicken little panic attack argument. It's a snipe hunt trying to scare up NO votes.
We agree to meet and talk about a an alternate system. Just like they agreed to meet and talk about changing the open time system. Means nothing, will amount to nothing.
We'd have to vote on the result of any talk and there's ZERO chance of PBS passing a vote here.
If you think this TA really is a back door to PBS then there's no reasoning with you.
1 Seat I'm beginning to think you just like to disagree with me :-)
10-06-2015, 06:43 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
This is the dumbest reason to vote no. Really dumb.
There is NO WAY PBS happens as a result of this vote. It's a chicken little panic attack argument. It's a snipe hunt trying to scare up NO votes.
We agree to meet and talk about a an alternate system. Just like they agreed to meet and talk about changing the open time system. Means nothing, will amount to nothing.
We'd have to vote on the result of any talk and there's ZERO chance of PBS passing a vote here.
If you think this TA really is a back door to PBS then there's no reasoning with you.
There is NO WAY PBS happens as a result of this vote. It's a chicken little panic attack argument. It's a snipe hunt trying to scare up NO votes.
We agree to meet and talk about a an alternate system. Just like they agreed to meet and talk about changing the open time system. Means nothing, will amount to nothing.
We'd have to vote on the result of any talk and there's ZERO chance of PBS passing a vote here.
If you think this TA really is a back door to PBS then there's no reasoning with you.
10-06-2015, 07:05 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,615
Originally Posted by Bananie
I am wondering why all the angst about PBS? If you got rid of PBS at Delta you would have a riot. Instead of just picking whatever line management creates, we get to build our lines from scratch according to our needs. Same with reserve. If I want to take a vacation, I just pile up reserve off days into one block and then go away with the family. PBS is way better than line of time. I don't have a dog in this fight so don't attack me, vote no if you want to vote no, I am just wondering why PBS has everyone so scared?
Because most of us that have worked under PBS have had negative experiences with it. Fwiw, I've been through multiple 121 rodeos and the SWA vacation and sick policies & system are ridiculously good. THAT is why PBS bristles the hairs on the backs of those that know better.
PBS? Over my dead body. (Pretty much the same as codeshare relief....HELL NO!!!)
10-06-2015, 07:20 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 166
SWA pilots are addicted to open time. The old school bidding system creates havoc every month with uncovered trips that result in premium flying. SWA pilots can turn 2 weeks of vacation into a very well paid 3+ weeks -- PBS would take that away and all vacations would pay the same.
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