Add to that, it's evident that much needed managerial energy was being divested to documenting a community forum for sharing VIEWPOINTS, with no hard data about anyone's BEHAVIOR. Rather than spending the hours it must have taken to write legal statements, maybe Spirit's mgt should have been.....managing?? Way to efficiently use your 3700.00 an hour pay rate to benefit your shareholders and board members.

I would love to grab a beer sometime and of course it will be my treat..I would love to hear your opinions on how to improve this industry..if you are ever in the south Florida area you name the place I'll be there. That is how people in my position make things better..by listening to YOU. Everyone is so quick to criticize the decisions made and as leaders we are not here to make friends we are here to run a successful and profitable business so you and your colleagues can provide for and support you family. With that objective in mind there are a lot of good companies out there that have created a very positive work environment for a lot of people such as yourself..so when someone like Bob comes into a company like Spirit he has to figure out how to improve your overall performance as a company and since nobody likes change he is met with hostility and skepticism but let's look at the numbers..customer complaints are down considerably, OTP is trending upwards..these are two metrics that are essential to profitability and reliability..it may not seem like it right now it may seem hopeless but there is light at the end of the tunnel..you will get a new agreement but you can't expect to get an industry leading deal overnight and give up nothing in return. I genuinely hope I'm wrong but decades of experience tell me I'm not.

As for my low post count..even you had 8 posts at one time..maybe you will change your opinion one day when my post count reaches whatever is considered an acceptable level here..but in the meantime I challenge you to keep an open mind when someone with relevant experience goes advice..I don't put you down for sharing your opinion so try to give me the same courtesy.

Bob doesn't sign my paycheck anymore. I do think he has done a lot for the industry as a whole but he is not perfect either. Make no mistake I do not agree with every decision he has ever made but he has certainly made some improvements at Spirit. He also negotiated a deal giving every single AirTran employee a job at one of the best airlines in the country if they wanted it.

But yes he has also made some mistakes along the way too. But to imply that he is paying me to post my opinion? Really? How much did your union president pay you to post your opinion?

I can only hope that anyone who participated in the intimidation of your own work group realizes it was not done anonymously and will not fly at the airlines you are applying to. As leaders in the airline industry we are all in contact with one another and all meet regularly to discuss things such as this. So just be prepared to deal with the reputation you have created.

I believe your past post you referred to me as a yoyo..that's what I was referring to..I was assuming nothing only going on verifiable past experience..and that's ok you are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine..

To be fair yes I do believe they are capable of negotiating in good faith..I in no way said they are currently..I truly believe based on past experience I have negotiating contracts that neither side is currently negotiating in good faith..the point I was trying to make was that one side will have to break the current cycle and build trust in order for good faith negotiations to take place and a fair agreement to be reached. Based on what I have seen here there is a shared responsibility of both sides to ensure this doesn't continue..you have already seen the result in 2010 and I can only assume you don't want to end up in the same position again.

As for the open time..this is something that I agree with you 100%. The company has failed miserably by allowing this practice to take place. I worked for a similar company once upon a time and we allowed something similar to this and it created a huge problem with open time. Unfortunately that company went under not long after so the full potential of the problem was never realized. I have been checking in on this from time to time over the last year or so and have also seen the trends as you suggest. There is not a person in this business that didn't see this problem coming from 10 miles away and I was very curious to see how the company was going to address it. Unfortunately a portion of the Spirit pilot group decided intimidating their peers was a good idea and got a decent amount of the pilot group to participate..this gave the company exactly the right weapon to fight back with(also a poor decision in my opinion)..you seem like you genuinely didn't have a part in and that was a very smart decision but the reality is this. When the group who set this into motion did what they did it robbed the entire group of hundreds of thousands of dollars maybe more in potential value in whatever agreement that might have been reached. It also delayed the process an unknown amount of time. Damage control should be the primary goal until negotiations resume and once they do then you need to put it behind you as a group and ensure you are doing everything you can as individuals to do the right thing so if the company continues to make mistakes and negotiate in bad faith they will not have anyone to point the finger at but themselves

I appreciate the tone that your using to try and create dialog, but I'm afraid you just don't get it. Bob had an opportunity to walk into a highly profitable company and make things better for everyone. Instead, he has called the pilot group party of the lower tier in the industry. He has improved our metrics, but why? He and the other management folks did these things for their bonuses. I picketed in Houston when he gave himself and cronies his raises. So, the fact that he wants us to expect less than industry standard because we are a ulcc, yet he gets a million more than Kelley... Pretty much a slap in the face. From what I read from your response, you are a management man. I hope your vast experience didn't leave you when you became management and you can remember that the people you lead are people first! The way this management treats its pilots makes it easy to see that, to them, we are liabilities and stats. There are many brand new posters on here that are management trolls and I do believe you are one of them. Go get your high five and let them know that we are people. Let them know that this airline runs off the back of its pilots. We do more with less than anyone in the industry. Tell them to treat us like an asset and not a liability.

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An “Industry Standard” contract boils down to 2 main things: How much Work is performed multiplied by Pay. It’s almost like a physics problem: Force x Mass = Energy. Work x Pay = Industry Standard.

[Please forgive me the simplistic analogy physics majors--I’m a Finance guy]

In the world of a pilot, Work is defined by the sum total of our work rules. For example, Trip Rigs, Day Rigs, Min Days Off, Vacation Rules, Reserve call-out Rules, etc. Pay consists of an hourly rate and associated benefits--sick time, vacation time, health insurance, retirement, etc.

What I’ve seen (and yes, I’ve been on a negotiating committee for a 121 carrier) is that management frequently pulls its favorite work rules from a variety of different contracts and calls this “Industry Standard” when in reality, it’s the worst parts from 5 different contracts. Now, each of these contracts might wind up being truly being industry standard, but that’s because they each have the benefit of other provisions which compensate for one small variable that’s below industry standard. A particular carrier might have Pay (in the universal sense of the term) that’s slightly higher to compensate for slightly lower than standard Work provisions. 83%Work x 120%Pay = Industry Average.

It’s my belief that with Spirit and other other airlines similarly situated (Frontier), we have maybe 80% of Industry Average on the Work variable and about 60% on the Pay variable. Do the math and the result is underwhelming.

When you suggest that if we want Industry Standard, we should expect to give up something in terms of Work rules, you’re not acknowledging the whole picture. To be blunt, you’re ignorant or you think we’re ignorant. 70% Industry Average on the Work variable multiplied by 90% on the Pay variable does NOT equate to Industry Average.

I don’t believe management folks such as yourself are really ignorant. Unfortunately, that leaves me with the conclusion that you think you’re smarter than your workforce and our representatives. I find your attitude and presumptions offensive and antagonistic.

Thank you! I couldn't find the words, but that is exactly correct!

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Lol, you are such a troll. I have to know how much money they are wasting on you.
Bob just wants us to be low tier and have a cost neutral contract (his words, not mine)so he can continue to collect his $7.2 million, 13 times more pay than our previous CEO.

Would people PLEASE stop quoting trolls?

Am I going crazy or is this a management threat published on APC?

All because they are collectively not working overtime

Sorry to intrude spirit dudes. I find your fight a fascinating example of corporate greed in the modern era. Keep up the good fight, the market has your back.

It's amazing how some folks can't realize the impact that people have on an airline operation, and thus should not be treated like robots affecting the bottom line.