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Originally Posted by CRJoperator
(Post 2424025)
Call me whatever you want man. There are many reason why same professions don't pay the same. In your case Spirit is NOT a Legacy Carrier. Spirit is on par with companies sucks as Allegiant and Virgin, sorry bud.
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Originally Posted by Squeaky banana
(Post 2424028)
Why would anyone, other than a management troll try and reason that any group of pilots is worth less than another. Your just setting the anchor lower and hurting yourself. Like I said, move along troll!
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Good day...
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Originally Posted by CRJoperator
(Post 2423995)
You guys keep saying "industry standards", which carriers would you use? USDOT Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS.GOV) classifies Spirit in the same group with Frontier, JB, and Virgin. From what I know their salaries are "mediocre" at best.
Delta United American Alaska/Virgin (actively negotiating and will see an arbitrated contract in a month so we are making assumptions on what they will get) Jetblue (actively negotiating so again we are not going to use current compensation but make the assumption they will secure large raises as they've historically been close to the legacies) Not included: Frontier (bankruptcy contract and actively negotiating. We don't include them because coming from bankruptcy you don't know where they will land and you obviously can't compare a bankruptcy contract to spirit that has no idea what to do with all the money.) Allegiant (for the most part not a competitor as we they don't fly a similar route map. We are using airlines with the same planes on the same routes.) You can't include current compensation from airlines that are negotiating at the same time. It's very reasonable to assume they are negotiating and will secure the same thing we are so you have to use that in the analysis. To prove we were being fair we were using current Alaska and Virgin compensation until the merger and their expedited negotiation process because Virgin was just starting the process on a first contract and to my knowledge Alaska wasn't negotiating yet. Spirit management messed up by allowing the industry to climb again with that merger and as a result our ask went up. Speaking of the ask: Industry standard or not if you choose to not agree with our "industry", it is not only affordable it is profitable and spirit could agree to every last word we have proposed and then some and not have to change a thing about how they do business. It's the definition of reasonable. What's unreasonable is expecting a highly skilled workforce that is the backbone of your business to come to work for far less compensation than those at your competition. It's not only unreasonable it's bad management and the shareholders and the board are going to see that sooner or later. Hopefully it's not too late. One thing is for certain, we aren't taking less than industry standard and will walk when the time comes if need be. |
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
(Post 2424041)
The industry:
Delta United American Alaska/Virgin (actively negotiating and will see an arbitrated contract in a month so we are making assumptions on what they will get) Jetblue (actively negotiating so again we are not going to use current compensation but make the assumption they will secure large raises as they've historically been close to the legacies) Not included: Frontier (bankruptcy contract and actively negotiating. We don't include them because coming from bankruptcy you don't know where they will land and you obviously can't compare a bankruptcy contract to spirit that has no idea what to do with all the money.) Allegiant (for the most part not a competitor as we they don't fly a similar route map. We are using airlines with the same planes on the same routes.) You can't include current compensation from airlines that are negotiating at the same time. It's very reasonable to assume they are negotiating and will secure the same thing we are so you have to use that in the analysis. To prove we were being fair we were using current Alaska and Virgin compensation until the merger and their expedited negotiation process because Virgin was just starting the process on a first contract and to my knowledge Alaska wasn't negotiating yet. Spirit management messed up by allowing the industry to climb again with that merger and as a result our ask went up. Speaking of the ask: Industry standard or not if you choose to not agree with our "industry", it is not only affordable it is profitable and spirit could agree to every last word we have proposed and then some and not have to change a thing about how they do business. It's the definition of reasonable. What's unreasonable is expecting a highly skilled workforce that is the backbone of your business to come to work for far less compensation than those at your competition. It's not only unreasonable it's bad management and the shareholders and the board are going to see that sooner or later. Hopefully it's not too late. One thing is for certain, we aren't taking less than industry standard and will walk when the time comes if need be. What's funny though is that I'd wager the house that IF Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Miami Air, JetBlue..etc had far higher compensation than the legacies for whatever reason, you'd be screaming that Spirit is nothing like the hub/spoke of the legacies, have a different revenue structure...blah blah blah and should be peered among those careers. And I'd think that case would be more convincing. Whatever happened to pilots are pilots and we all do the same job? I guess that's not applicable when it doesn't fit your narrative. You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works. Time to copy and paste this on the other thread :) |
Originally Posted by Feng
(Post 2424052)
What's funny though is that I'd wager the house that IF Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Miami Air, JetBlue..etc had far higher compensation than the legacies for whatever reason, you'd be screaming that Spirit is nothing like the hub/spoke of the legacies, have a different revenue structure...blah blah blah and should be peered among those careers. And I'd think that case would be more convincing. Whatever happened to pilots are pilots and we all do the same job? I guess that's not applicable when it doesn't fit your narrative.
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works. Time to copy and paste this on the other thread :) Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk I can play that game too! Buzz off! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Squeaky banana
(Post 2424057)
You really are a piece of work. Can you not take a hint? Go away. Your opinion is that of a management stooge. Go work on your resume so you can be a big boy ceo instead of the lackey intern playing on internet web boards...
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk I can play that game too! Buzz off! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by FML666
(Post 2424059)
Please ignore him.
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Its pretty obvious who the management trolls are.
No sane airline pilot questions those who are demanding Industry Standard. Real ALPA brothers & Sisters try to raise each other up, not bring each other down or manage expecations. |
Simple troll solution...put them on ignore. It has worked in the past. If you don't feed the trolls they will go back under their bridges fairly quickly.
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