I don't have to justify to the other work groups why that offer was garbage just like Bendo doesn't have to justify his compensation to us.

It should be no secret that we make much more than the other work groups. That is no excuse to make less than industry standard for a pilot. The doctor that delivers my kids probably makes $600k/yr and the nurse $70k. He doesn't have to justify to her why he's not willing to work for $450k.

I support my MEC and NC. Two years of delay tactics and disingenuous negotiations for that. Disappointing. The unlimited no-refusal reassignments is something that needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

I did like the nugget about how he tried to get a deal done before amendable date. lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Did you guys get your full Crew Brief from the negotiating team yet? Hopefully it will shed some light on the last scheduled day of mediation.

I concur...

I've lived this. With LTD denied. It sucks. I'd advise against it.

What if it was an ultra low cost obgyn / hospital that charges less for delivery and pre delivery services by providing a no frills / no pamper accommodations along with lower labor cost? The doctor signed on initially and agreed to work for 30-60% less than doctors at traditional practices, and all of a sudden demand to be paid like traditional practices even though the business model is not setup to have the same revenue as a traditional operation? Perhaps he/she should quit and find employment in a traditional office.

Oh it's not absurd or unreasonable at all that people are saying they won't agree to $500/hr with 50% DC if pbs or no changes to LTD is involved. Jeeesh, I wonder if anyone would underwrite a private LTD plan now that you can spend that extra 300K/yr you'll be making for premiums.

Feng, it's obsurd that your still here. Just about everyone you talk to says go away. Have you not gotten the hint yet?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I see your point, but giving up all of our work rules for Allegiant rates will never happen. And the one thing you fail to mention in your example.......there is an industry changing Doctor shortage looming on the horizon. Regional Airlines'a upper management teams use to be as arrogant and ignorant as the ULCC teams are. It won't be long before Spirit will be needing to do phone interviews and offer signing bonus just to get pilots to come work for these crappy rates. This whole attitude of "We don't need to be competitive to attract quality ATP licensed pilots........it's our business model.......go to someplace better if you want to be paid better."....this attitude will absolutely destroy the airline over the course of time. Good luck telling the board why we had to park brand new airplanes in long term storage because we don't have enough pilots to fly them. Spirit is a money tree and the NK management team is going to kill it because they wanted to save money on the water by watering it only once a week.

Good analogy.
Feng, where your analogy falls apart is that we DO make as much money as everyone else. Percentagewise we make more money. We make less money overall, but we are a smaller company overall. They absolutely have the ability to pay us and still be wildly profitable. And when I signed on we were not the lowest paid air bus drivers. For a little while we were one of the highest.

Airlines pay the market rate for fuel, real estate, parts, etc.. They got away with paying below market-rate for pilots for a very long time, because we just went through the worst two decades of aviation employment in US history, all while printing out 250 hr zero-to-heroes that whole time. Labor supply was basically unlimited, so airlines got away with paying bottom dollar.

But like all things, in the long-run, you cannot escape market forces for any business input--Econ 101 always wins in the end (for any limited resource). Even if the 1500 hour rule and age 67 were passed (I hope to god they don't), I firmly believe airlines would still eventually be forced to pay up for pilots--just 5 years or so later. It's a simple long-term market adjustment to the cost and time-investments of training vs. the career outlook/cost/time-investment in other fields, and also a declining millenial-cultural interest in operating machinery with their hands versus building/designing it on a screen.

If your management team reached the expiration of a commodities contract for fuel, and then refused to pay the prevailing (higher) market rate for fuel in the future, fuel suppliers would very quickly stop supplying you with fuel. They'll eventually be forced with the same dilemma if they do not pay you market rate, whether by force from the NMB, or by the force of your feet leaving for greener pastures.

None of the above is emotional or irrational at all--these are not opinions--these are all simple, cynical statements about how the world of business operates in modern capitalist societies. Businesses that cannot generate sustainable profits when paying the prevailing market rate for all costs of doing business--fuel, parts, mechanics, pilots, etc.--are a drag on the US economy and stock markets and they will be eliminated from the sector in the long-run.

I have a lot of buddies over at Spirit and I'm highly confident your management team can afford to pay you market rate and thrive. I believe the same thing for our group here at B6.