Is this normal
02-05-2018 | 01:07 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 243
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And thats the truth. Many have been through 3 or 4 of these TA votes at airlines, some more. And its the same every time.
Rule of thumb is "take the percentage for and against, and then flip them, that will be the result. Funny part is its usually pretty accurate
Further adding to the humor is it will pass by 70% and 70% will say they voted "no" once it is done.
Collective bargaining agreements at the airlines are one example where the saying "victory has many fathers and loss is an orphan" is the exact opposite.
Rule of thumb is "take the percentage for and against, and then flip them, that will be the result. Funny part is its usually pretty accurate
Further adding to the humor is it will pass by 70% and 70% will say they voted "no" once it is done.
Collective bargaining agreements at the airlines are one example where the saying "victory has many fathers and loss is an orphan" is the exact opposite.
02-05-2018 | 01:11 PM
#33
Banned
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 106
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4 days off here is good, but again, there is MORE to that. You will be gone, working more legs a day, just to get up to the credit PBS has set for a minimum when bidding. You’ll see
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02-05-2018 | 01:50 PM
#34
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
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More legs per day? Fine. I want to be as productive as possible.
02-05-2018 | 01:55 PM
#35
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
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100% normal as Scooby said.
It usually always plays out the same way. The "No Voters" are always the loudest. Always. The "Yes" or "undecided" usually say little. In part because they are still gathering information or because the realize trying to argue with a definite No voter will not change anything. So they be quiet.
Some No voters are "No" on social media but change their vote when in private to a "Yes"
Remember the screams for "NO PBS!" I think if there was a PBS poll on APC it would have been 90% against. Yes when they did private polling, the majority of Spirit pilots were open to exploring it.
The distant learning LOA is another example. "No voters" in force, and it passed.
As this month goes on, the info coming out from road shows and conference calls will provide a lot of info that the undecided want to hear.
Forums and WhatsApp are a breeding ground for guys to yell and get angry, thats what they are, anger platforms. Guys who are yes votes are not goin to go and argue with the angry, it doesnt work well for anyone.
I think a safe bet is this TA passes, those who were against it will wear insignia showing they are no votes, and it takes this group years to overcome the divide caused.
Sad, but unavoidable.
It usually always plays out the same way. The "No Voters" are always the loudest. Always. The "Yes" or "undecided" usually say little. In part because they are still gathering information or because the realize trying to argue with a definite No voter will not change anything. So they be quiet.
Some No voters are "No" on social media but change their vote when in private to a "Yes"
Remember the screams for "NO PBS!" I think if there was a PBS poll on APC it would have been 90% against. Yes when they did private polling, the majority of Spirit pilots were open to exploring it.
The distant learning LOA is another example. "No voters" in force, and it passed.
As this month goes on, the info coming out from road shows and conference calls will provide a lot of info that the undecided want to hear.
Forums and WhatsApp are a breeding ground for guys to yell and get angry, thats what they are, anger platforms. Guys who are yes votes are not goin to go and argue with the angry, it doesnt work well for anyone.
I think a safe bet is this TA passes, those who were against it will wear insignia showing they are no votes, and it takes this group years to overcome the divide caused.
Sad, but unavoidable.
I know there is nothing guaranteed and it’s a gamble (voting NO), but I see that TA as making this place a non-destination, and a stressful job while getting paid a lot less than my peers. Although it plays zero role in my vote, I’ll be embarrassed for our group if this passes.
Last edited by NotAHobby7; 02-05-2018 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Added words
02-05-2018 | 01:57 PM
#36
Banned
Joined: Feb 2018
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At least that is how PBS worked in the past when I used it....
02-05-2018 | 02:20 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
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PBS has nothing to do with pairing construction.
It is simply a way of bidding on the pairings in system. All the pairings are in the system and PBS deals them out. You could have PBS right now with all the exact same pairings we have right now.
There are definitely some drawbacks to PBS but that isnt one of them.
02-05-2018 | 02:32 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 467
Likes: 70
02-05-2018 | 03:38 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 307
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From: A320HD
If this gets voted in I tend to agree with you because I sure as hell will be trying to get out right with them. If I’m going to have airline X’s work rules I want their pay too. I was hopeful what we got with this TA would make this a career destination but afraid not. 4 days off is way over emphasized here. I believe min calendar day takes care of that.
02-05-2018 | 05:12 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 146
For every "no" voter ****ed that a guy who is leaving might vote yes, there is a "yes" voter who would be ****ed if a guy who is leaving would vote no. The Yes voter gets accused of stealing people's QOL to line their own pockets, the No voter gets accused of peeing in the pool and stealing money from the group.
It's funny because just 2 weeks ago, those same people who are leaving soon were considered heroes for proving everyone's point that the 2010 contract was bad for the company. Now we have a TA, anyone leaving is going to be damned by half the pilots no matter what they do. Hypocritical isn't it?
How 'bout we recognize that every single person here is gonna vote for what they honestly believe is the best for their family, their career, and their peers, and leave the name-calling and personal attacks for management's use?
It's funny because just 2 weeks ago, those same people who are leaving soon were considered heroes for proving everyone's point that the 2010 contract was bad for the company. Now we have a TA, anyone leaving is going to be damned by half the pilots no matter what they do. Hypocritical isn't it?
How 'bout we recognize that every single person here is gonna vote for what they honestly believe is the best for their family, their career, and their peers, and leave the name-calling and personal attacks for management's use?
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