illtake2

Is this TA really that hated or is it the same 20 keyboard commandos bashing it?? The internet makes it seem it will fail miserably but talking to people it’s mostly yes votes. This is strange.


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ScoobyDooo

very normal, same as Ipad LOA or even Allegiants most recent T/A

illtake2

I don’t know I haven’t flown since the release, but this is crazy. Entire whatsapp are filled with no.


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ScoobyDooo

meh, in talking with some friends who seem like No Votes on the WhatsApp they are privately yes voters, lol.

Also, out of 1400 voters, how many are on the Chats? 300-400 or so? with at least 50-100 guys who cant even vote

Conquistador27

It will probably be about the same as the iPad vote. 70 something percent for it.

Sky is Falling

100% normal as Scooby said.

It usually always plays out the same way. The "No Voters" are always the loudest. Always. The "Yes" or "undecided" usually say little. In part because they are still gathering information or because the realize trying to argue with a definite No voter will not change anything. So they be quiet.

Some No voters are "No" on social media but change their vote when in private to a "Yes"

Remember the screams for "NO PBS!" I think if there was a PBS poll on APC it would have been 90% against. Yes when they did private polling, the majority of Spirit pilots were open to exploring it.

The distant learning LOA is another example. "No voters" in force, and it passed.

As this month goes on, the info coming out from road shows and conference calls will provide a lot of info that the undecided want to hear.

Forums and WhatsApp are a breeding ground for guys to yell and get angry, thats what they are, anger platforms. Guys who are yes votes are not goin to go and argue with the angry, it doesnt work well for anyone.

I think a safe bet is this TA passes, those who were against it will wear insignia showing they are no votes, and it takes this group years to overcome the divide caused.

Sad, but unavoidable.

illtake2

Wow, I wish I shared your optimism. People just need to call and talk to a person who knows this language. The read one sentence of a subsection and turn it into gospel.


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ForTheWin

Very normal. Tons of keyboard heroes at all airlines...but when reality sets in, they will vote yes. History has proven this time and again.

Sky is Falling

And thats the truth. Many have been through 3 or 4 of these TA votes at airlines, some more. And its the same every time.

Rule of thumb is "take the percentage for and against, and then flip them, that will be the result. Funny part is its usually pretty accurate

Further adding to the humor is it will pass by 70% and 70% will say they voted "no" once it is done.

Collective bargaining agreements at the airlines are one example where the saying "victory has many fathers and loss is an orphan" is the exact opposite.

MO4SHO

Back after a hiatus! With a new username...anyway the remark about the polling is overwhelmingly incorrect.

First, the polling data was not shared with anyone. Secondly, how could one come to the conclusion that people “wanted” PBS if the question wasn’t asked in that form? Polling questions can be manipulated to gather the desired result regardless of how the majority feel.

But yes normal for the majority of the pilots not to look beyond the pay scale! Who read, can be required by scheduling to remain at the airport, you will receive 2 hours of pay. And now, who read into that? What is the time limit they can keep you there? 10 hours, 12 hours?

How about this one, in the PBS LOA: ...if after 12 months...disputes remain...the arbitrator will CONSIDER SPIRITS OPERATIONAL NEEDS when ruling.

Or this one in the reserve section SCR/LCR responsibilities...shall report ready to depart prior to 3 hours from initial call. Not very clean language, how’d you like to be on LCR , get the call and then in trouble for Nate making it within 3 hours?