Airline Pilot Central Forums - Cooler heads must prevail

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2528840)

What guys aren’t getting is I want to vote yes on this thing. I haven’t been complaining about section 25 and while section 3 isn’t my cup of tea I’d vote for it because of the very important gains elsewhere. Good money, a DC retirement, own occupation LTD, and scope protection for mergers and prevention of outsourcing my current job or growth. We are 95% there. The 5% unfortunately deals with outsourcing growth and that’s a problem for me.

I streamed the ord road show and saw all the graphs and listened to all the Q and A (not day 2). I’ve read every Q and A email and the master Q and A on the TA website. I’ve also read the entire TA page by page. My concerns on most of 1.E have been addressed and although it’s not what I would’ve liked to see, I can probably live with it I think. I’ve sent email with other scope concerns I have that have gone unanswered.

I respect the NC and the entire panel doing the road shows and I know they are very busy. They may not have gotten to my emails yet. I plan to ask my questions in person. It’s not a personal attack on anyone here or the NC or Art. My questions have not been answered. I just get called crazy and that I don’t know anything but no one can seem to tell me definatively that my concerns are unfounded with supporting language to prove otherwise.

I read the scope section as if I’m John Bendoritis and Ted Christie trying to seek a work around of my now higher cost pilot group. These guys have a history and it’s not pilot friendly. The will not grow this airline with us if they don’t have to. I want our scope section to ensure that they have to.

If a frontier merger is slated for tomorrow it would be smart to take this just for what’s in it now. I understand that.

This a well thought out post and your concerns are justified. I felt comfortable with what I read and what I learned about section 1. I won't attempt to answer your questions about that and will leave it to the experts. Let us know what they say after you ask them in person or hear back via email. All my questions were answered w/in 24 hrs so maybe send the questions again. At the end of the day if you feel uncomfortable with what you hear then vote accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingpuma1 (Post 2528901)

I’m really tired of everyone telling folks they need to go to a roadshow if they are voting no. I did go to a roadshow and I’m still voting no. I could take most things in the pos ta but I can’t sign off on no reserve drops. I can go to all the road shows and it won’t convince me other wise. There are other reasons I’m voting no (scope, no raise in training pay, pay in general). But the roadshow didn’t change my mind, maybe there wasn’t enough kool-aid at the one I went to, or maybe this is my 3+ contract negotiation in almost 20 years and I refuse to buy what they are selling, and I refuse to pull the ladder up behind me.

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You might be tired of it, but it's good advice. Many have changed their minds on this TA based on the road shows. You haven't, and that's fine but at least you are making a much more informed decision. Plus I believe the group as a whole will not turn down a 43% average increase, the greatly improved LTD, and the DC, so you will better know what is in the contract and how to maximize it for you.

I think it's great to know what the NC and ALPA lawyers think and if we vote no if would get a lot more money (very doubtful since the viability of the company comes into question), if the scope would improve (not unless we fire Art and hire Qotsaautopilot), and if we could get another contract quickly (unknown, but the NMB has other priorities so it could be years).

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingpuma1 (Post 2528901)

I was telling everyone to go to a roadshow wether you are voting Yes or No. That way they get all the facts before making their decision. You did that, so know one should give you a hard time about how you vote, that is why we have a vote on this. Same goes for the pilots that vote Yes, if their discussion, so long as you get all your facts and vote of facts instead of emotions no one should give anyone a hard time. Of course this is APC and that is what it is know for.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conquistador27 (Post 2528942)

Because if he had actually gone to a road show he would have seen, very well laid out, why reserve drops are gone. Whether it be TA1 or TA150. They are gone..

If you had read closely you would have seen I did go to a roadshow. I’m sorry you don’t like my reasoning for voting no, but no one will be changing my mind on it.

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Cooler heads must prevail

The “checker boarding” of reserve days by pilots is the reason the NMB, not the NC, is not going to entertain keeping this system. Whether you are engaging in this for your own personal gain (special deals) or you want to make it impossible for them to call you out for a multi day trip, doesn’t matter. The company successfully persuaded the NMB that this was a big part of the spring meltdown. This ship has sailed, whether you like it or not.
I see guys that are very senior to me bidding reserve. Why? Some really do want to have lots of days off and never get called, some have another revenue stream and are using spirit as a flying club with health insurance, but more often than not there are games being played. Like it or not, Spirit knows what’s going on and are done entertaining the whims of a few. I’m not saying that I agree with Spirit management, but they are a business that needs to make money and grow. The NMB sees this issue the same way and isn’t going to be persuaded that we will behave, if they give us another TA.

I feel like dropping from the outside in should been allowed up to a certain number of days a month without using mandatory float vacation. The center day drop Crew definitely sealed everyone’s fate with that one. It wasn’t illegal so I can’t blame them but heavy use of it didn’t do us any favors

I would be happy if they would still let us drop and just not leave single days then. I need to drop around my wife’s schedule so someone’s at home, this new contract is going to prohibit me from doing that, so it’s becoming an issue of her job or my job? A big part of why I came to Spirit is the flexibility and now that it’s being taken away I’m not left with a lot of options. Please don’t tell me to bid a line either, I would if I could but after a year+ I still can’t hold one.

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Will your new money replace her income?

Work hard, X Y list etc. having a stay at home with kids is pretty awesome

Cooler heads must prevail

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2529180)

Will your new money replace her income?

Work hard, X Y list etc. having a stay at home with kids is pretty awesome

Maybe? We haven’t crunched the number yet, but I’m willing to bet she won’t be in favor of quitting since she has the better job. Even if she did it’s still not going to get me the days of for family events bc of the no reserve drop. Oh well I should have known after 20 years, a lot of pilots are short sighted and like shiny objects. I’m sure we will find a way to make it work when it passes (which I’m sure it will), it’s really bothering me that folks are trying to explain to me why it’s good, when I know for me it’s bad.

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