So if for example Aer Lingus in Ireland, BA, Virgin Atlantic, Ryanair etc used the Norwegian business plan under EU rules and open skies agreement thats fine because they are in their own country using the exact set of rules (EASA Standards) with regards to labor law, tax, safety etc that Norwegian are using.

However when Norwegian does it (Norway part of European Economic Area) it is a problem and somehow are now less safe and undercutting all workers in US airlines.

Give me a break!!

US airlines need to up their game and their product and embrace competition. Nobody is stealing your jobs or forcing your wages down.

Quite frankly I dont care if NAS survives or not but stop the whining and the talk about undercutting you and your wages because it is just simply not true.

 

I don't understand the Open Skies Agreement? CLEARLY, I'm not going to post an 11 year old article that was touting the Open Skies Agreement before it even came into effect. And the 'author' of that article is an international consulting company that is paid by clients with an agenda. But it's really nice that you would post that garbage which doesn't take into account the relative market size of US domestic aviation vs European domestic aviation.

Rubbish? What are you - a foreign national who landed a job at SkyWest and is trying to get on with an airline here in the US that pays better? There are lots of foreign nationals who come to the US to fly - another data point as to the much larger size and better working conditions of the US air market vice Europe and the rest of the world.

Norwegian peddles two cabins (classes of service): Economy and Premium. One can clearly see that on their booking website, where they clearly label each product as a different cabin. Premium Economy, for those airlines that have that product, do not list it as a separate cabin from economy.
Premium seating is priced ~3x the price of Economy seating; too great a disparity to mistake it as premium economy.
They also include lounge access to those that buy Premium class seats - a perk not associated with any economy bookings, only business or first class bookings.
If, as you are arguing, this is Premium Economy, why doesn't Norwegian use the term, Premium Economy? Because they clearly want to sell it as pseudo Business class.

Research - using an 11 year old article written by an EU-based consulting company peddling a client's point of view to justify your opinion is NOT research.

 

Norwegian loses money when load factors drop below the mid-80s. Which is 3/4 of the year. They are dumping seats onto the market, pricing tickets below their operating cost. It absolutely forces down my Profit Sharing so yes, they are forcing my wages down.

I will celebrate the day they go out of business.

 

So please compare NAS wages to AMR, DAL and UAL if they are not undercutting wages.

 

Better working conditions...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

No paid leave (Europe 5 to 6 weeks a year) plus days off, rubbish medical insurance, no sick days where you still get paid, can be fired at the drop of a hat (much better protection in Europe, Aus, NZ etc..) On this front Europe wipes the floor with US working conditions

A seniority system that benefits the airlines, not the employees except the top 1% in base.

Seniority forces you to stay where you are because if you leave for another airline you start at the bottom. What other industry on earth forces you to do that?

Would a senior network engineer at say Microsoft leave for Google and start on the help desk....ERRR NO!!!

Best working condTions.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

In the western developed nations US working conditions are considered some of the worst in the world....

HAHAHAHAHA....I cannot stop laughing!

 

Different products, different routes, different business model. Nobody is forcing the majors to drop ticket prices...the consumer decides what level of service they want.

Norwegian and Spirit are Costco...DAL/AA/UA/BA/QF etc are Farmers market...supposedly better qualicy for a premium price.

Using your argument Spirit A320 pilots are undercutting UA A320 pilots...

Yeah right!!!

 

... and yet, here you are, flying for SkyWest as an expat. Why did you come here instead of staying in your home country and fly there?

 

His answer better be to get the experience necessary to get on with a carrier in his country or his argument is full of chit. Of course, he could stay here and fly B787s out of KFLL for regional airline rates.

 

I thought his entire rant was hilarious. I get 5 weeks/yr off, no complaints about my medical insurance, and get paid sick time (albeit only 5hrs/mo, but it's still enough that I'm able to bank some in case of a long term medical condition), plus I have LTD.

As far as the seniority system, I prefer it over rostering like they have in a lot of foreign airlines because that system favors buttkissers. I consider that system much more skewed to favor management.

As far as Egg320's future, reading his past posts, it sounds like he can't get hired anywhere past SkyWest. I'd bet that he's got an app in with Norwegian.

On the 787s out of KFLL, Norwegian is running out of ways to raise cash. Pretty soon, there should be some slightly used 787s on the open market - I'd expect those KFLL jobs to vaporize in the not too distant future.

 

I have worked both in Europe and (currently) in the US, so I am qualified to reply to this BS:
Paid leave: I had 32 days in EU, worked 10 on 5 off (10 days off/month). To get 21 days off I had to take 16 days off, so 2 blocks of 3 weeks. I now have 3 weeks, and will get 4. Each of these easily get me 3 weeks off. And I only work 15 days a month average.

Medical insurance: might be more expensive on average here, but I was paying €90/month in 2004 just for me, that would be at least $150 corrected for inflation. Now $87/month for 1 person through company sponsored plan.
Also I definitely have paid medical leave here in the US, including 60% pay till 65 if I lose my license.

Job protection:
If you don't do your job at Ryanair/Wizz/Norwegian or any of the other scumbag operators that hire through crewing companies like OSM you have ZERO job protection, and lots have been fired for starting unions. I enjoy job protection through my union.
Also took a 20% pay cut and people were let go with no severance package back in EU. Got my full paycheck and 8 weeks severance pay when I was let go from my last job in the US.

Seniority:
Aside from the fact that ALL European legacy carriers have seniority systems, and companies really couldn't give a rats ass about who flies which plane, who gets what schedule or who goes on vacation when as long as the schedule gets covered, senioritys protects all pilots in the company. My new-hire class in the EU was half DEC (no, not me) and that was the norm, even though there were FOs on property with enough experience to upgrade. How effed up are you to see that as a positive thing.
Also when working in the EU I had zero input in my schedule and was regularly denied vacation request. Now I bid for a schedule/vacation, 50% on the list, most of the time get most of my request.

Not even mentioned by you:
Forgot getting on with a legacy carrier if you are not a national from that country with a license from the national flying school and younger than 30 years old so the only jobs available are for crap paying low cost carriers that rebase you across Europe against your will. All US Legacy carriers hire from all over the board.

For pilots the conditions in the EU are vasty inferior to the USA right now, yes, if you flip burgers at McDonald's you are better off in the EU, so maybe that is a better fit for you looking at your post.

PS forgot to mention most LCC make you pay for training, and then give you a 0 hour contract. Not a single US operator does that.