Originally Posted by NedsKid

I'd argue it's ABOVE industry standard - even industry leading. Here's how I see it after looking at the chart on LTD SWAPA put out in Nov. 2019 as part of their info packet to let their guys see how they stacked up going into negotiations against American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, FedEx, Hawaiian, JetBlue, Spirit, and UPS:

I know many of the pilots reading this don't work for Spirit, so I'll try to add info that might seem redundant to Spirit pilots.

At Spirit, we can get up to $15k/month in LTD pay-out (@ 60% of Pre Disability Earnings [PDE] - so, if you make $300k/year, you make $25k/month, 60% of that is $15k). JetBlue, as far as I can tell, is the only other airline that can get up to $15k/month. Every other airline is lower in both PDE % and LTD monthly cap (except Delta, who has no LTD monthly cap, but a 50% PDE limit, so you'd have to make $360k at Delta vs $300k Spirit to get $15k/month).

The biggest reason Spirit's plan is superior (IMO) is because Spirit only pays for the first $5k or benefits, and the pilots pay for the buy-up out of their own pocket with after-tax $ (yep, you read that right!). It costs about $80/month to pay for the full $10k buy-up, and you can only buy up to the amount you're eligible for, so if you make less than $100k (first year FO), you can't buy-up, and a pilot who makes $150k/year can only buy-up to $7,500, which would cost about $24/month.

The key is, insurance paid for out-of-pocket with after-tax $'s is tax free. Company paid for insurance is NOT. So, when you go out on LTD, you want as much of the $ to be tax free as possible. You already took a unexpected pay-cut, so you're going to want every $ you can to be tax-free.

Spirit will pay $10k tax free, $5k taxed monthly.
JetBlue will pay $1.5k tax free, $13.5k taxed
United will pay $8k, all taxed

I'd rather pay $80/month for $15k, $10k tax free when I REALLY need it.

I'd rather have Harvey Watt too, though.

Originally Posted by NedsKid

I'd argue it's ABOVE industry standard - even industry leading. Here's how I see it after looking at the chart on LTD SWAPA put out in Nov. 2019 as part of their info packet to let their guys see how they stacked up going into negotiations against American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, FedEx, Hawaiian, JetBlue, Spirit, and UPS:

I know many of the pilots reading this don't work for Spirit, so I'll try to add info that might seem redundant to Spirit pilots.

At Spirit, we can get up to $15k/month in LTD pay-out (@ 60% of Pre Disability Earnings [PDE] - so, if you make $300k/year, you make $25k/month, 60% of that is $15k). JetBlue, as far as I can tell, is the only other airline that can get up to $15k/month. Every other airline is lower in both PDE % and LTD monthly cap (except Delta, who has no LTD monthly cap, but a 50% PDE limit, so you'd have to make $360k at Delta vs $300k Spirit to get $15k/month).

The biggest reason Spirit's plan is superior (IMO) is because Spirit only pays for the first $5k or benefits, and the pilots pay for the buy-up out of their own pocket with after-tax $ (yep, you read that right!). It costs about $80/month to pay for the full $10k buy-up, and you can only buy up to the amount you're eligible for, so if you make less than $100k (first year FO), you can't buy-up, and a pilot who makes $150k/year can only buy-up to $7,500, which would cost about $24/month.

The key is, insurance paid for out-of-pocket with after-tax $'s is tax free. Company paid for insurance is NOT. So, when you go out on LTD, you want as much of the $ to be tax free as possible. You already took a unexpected pay-cut, so you're going to want every $ you can to be tax-free.

Spirit will pay $10k tax free, $5k taxed monthly.
JetBlue will pay $1.5k tax free, $13.5k taxed
United will pay $8k, all taxed

I'd rather pay $80/month for $15k, $10k tax free when I REALLY need it.

I'd rather have Harvey Watt too, though.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

zero company paid retirement contribution on LTD. Go out at a young age and that $15k/mo (if even eligible) doesn’t change with inflation but that’s with anyone. The main issue is your huge loss in retirement. You now have to take your 60% earnings and invest as best you can on you on your own.

Make more money doing something on the side to compensate then right? Can’t! Your 60% LTD benefit that you get zero retirement contribution on is also cut for any outside earnings so your side gig you would be working for free unless you’re hiding the money in cash. I believe that counts for your spouse too if she/he goes out and gets a job they didn’t have prior to your disability.

Also don’t forget that you only get company healthcare for five years so now you have to take your 60% earnings with no retirement and no ability to make extra money and buy insurance 100% out of pocket and because you’re on LTD it’s not crazy to think you may need more care than a normal person.

industry leading? No

100x better than the last contract? Yes

the poor guys that went out under the last contract and we didn’t bring them with us in this contract I really feel for them.

Originally Posted by FNGFO

While I’d love for LTD to be 100% with retirement and insurance paid up for life, I have to balance that with knowing that if I’d go out I’d be making a multiple or two of the national average income to not work. If I have to contribute to retirement and insurance out of that then them’s the breaks. I could be flipping burgers for a living or dependent on the government sole.

Ill take anything better if offered, but won’t turn my nose up at this.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

The feds keep moving the goalposts on so many things too. They are also currently searching pharmacy records to see what prescriptions you are filling and catch you not reporting.

Originally Posted by Deathwish

I don’t know how they would have time to do this with all of the other invasive activities they do.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

A retirement contribution, no benefit offset for other income, and healthcare at company rates would do wonders and not be outside industry norms.

The issue is you spend so long to get to this point in your career where you can actually start building a financial future for yourself, a stable retirement, and send your kid to college, but it’s so easy to get a disqualifying condition and be otherwise healthy and functioning. The feds keep moving the goalposts on so many things too. They are also currently searching pharmacy records to see what prescriptions you are filling and catch you not reporting. I didn’t think that was even legal with HIPPA.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

zero company paid retirement contribution on LTD. Go out at a young age and that $15k/mo (if even eligible) doesn’t change with inflation but that’s with anyone. The main issue is your huge loss in retirement. You now have to take your 60% earnings and invest as best you can on you on your own.

Make more money doing something on the side to compensate then right? Can’t! Your 60% LTD benefit that you get zero retirement contribution on is also cut for any outside earnings so your side gig you would be working for free unless you’re hiding the money in cash. I believe that counts for your spouse too if she/he goes out and gets a job they didn’t have prior to your disability.

Also don’t forget that you only get company healthcare for five years so now you have to take your 60% earnings with no retirement and no ability to make extra money and buy insurance 100% out of pocket and because you’re on LTD it’s not crazy to think you may need more care than a normal person.

industry leading? No

100x better than the last contract? Yes

the poor guys that went out under the last contract and we didn’t bring them with us in this contract I really feel for them.