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-   -   Possible Plane Order (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/119235-possible-plane-order.html)

David Puddy 07-26-2019 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by Macjet (Post 2859810)
I'll add that it's moved from 144 to 193 by 2021 without an order. There's still another 97 airframes they're shopping for in the open market.

This is a GREAT article explaining why Delta loves the new A220 and how it is redefining regional operations - let’s hope Ted reads it:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysis-airbus-a220-is-killing-it-at-delta/

Very good article. No doubt Spirit could also benefit using the A220 on regional or thinner routes currently using less efficient A319s.

Who knows if Spirit will end up ordering the A220? Even if Spirit doesn’t, the A220 is gaining popularity and we will be seeing a lot more flying and competing against Spirit in the coming years...

sioux8ships 07-26-2019 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by David Puddy (Post 2860009)
This is a GREAT article explaining why Delta loves the new A220 and how it is redefining regional operations - let’s hope Ted reads it:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/anal...g-it-at-delta/

Very good article describing how Delta is using this airplane effectively. No doubt Spirit could benefit as well using the A220 on regional or thinner routes currently using less efficient A319s.

Why isn’t the 319 NEO being discussed? There’s hardly any backlog of orders with it.

David Puddy 07-26-2019 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by sioux8ships (Post 2860023)
Why isn’t the 319 NEO being discussed? There’s hardly any backlog of orders with it.

The fact that nobody (or very, very few airlines) has ordered it is telling. I believe the initial capital cost of the A319 NEO is high (more expensive than a new A220-300) and it is difficult to spread costs across fewer seats than found in the bigger A320 NEO. From a CASM standpoint, I believe the A220-300 still beats the A319 NEO by a good margin. Nobody is ordering it beyond a few VIP/Bizjet versions.

Qotsaautopilot 07-26-2019 07:26 PM

Never read an article with so many references to pilot scope. The connection between efficiency and making it profitable to operate at mainline is false. They already operate the 717 profitably. The A220 is just better. They could operate all the rjs with mainline pilots profitably without question. Pilot compensation is such a small part of CASM. Airlines just got drunk on the whipsaw of cheap labor for so long that maybe they have started to figure out operating in house is a better product that endless outsourcing. The a220 has nothing to do with scope other than it has to be a mainline aircraft.

Name User 07-27-2019 04:32 AM


Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2860045)
Never read an article with so many references to pilot scope. The connection between efficiency and making it profitable to operate at mainline is false. They already operate the 717 profitably. The A220 is just better. They could operate all the rjs with mainline pilots profitably without question. Pilot compensation is such a small part of CASM. Airlines just got drunk on the whipsaw of cheap labor for so long that maybe they have started to figure out operating in house is a better product that endless outsourcing. The a220 has nothing to do with scope other than it has to be a mainline aircraft.

It's not pilot costs that make mainline expensive, it's the cascading effect of all workers on mainline wage scales that make them expensive vs regional counterparts.

Qotsaautopilot 07-27-2019 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2860120)
It's not pilot costs that make mainline expensive, it's the cascading effect of all workers on mainline wage scales that make them expensive vs regional counterparts.

But how delta operates each station whether with their own employees or contract wouldn’t change based on the type of plane being serviced. The author was purely talking pilot scope. He’s an imbecile.

David Puddy 07-27-2019 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 2860237)
But how delta operates each station whether with their own employees or contract wouldn’t change based on the type of plane being serviced. The author was purely talking pilot scope. He’s an imbecile.

Perhaps. But he was also impressed with how the A220 will be shaping fleet/route strategy for Delta. It’s 20% more efficient than a 717 but flies twice as far - and that’s just the smaller 110-seat version and not the bigger A220-300 with an even better CASM. It’s a game changer for the network planning guys... Imagine what Spirit could do with it.

flyingpuma1 07-27-2019 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by David Puddy (Post 2860245)
Imagine what Spirit could do with it.

Spirit right now can't figure out you need (more) pilots to run an airline. I don't expect an aircraft order anytime soon.

MCDUmanipulator 07-27-2019 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by flyingpuma1 (Post 2860248)
Spirit right now can't figure out you need (more) pilots to run an airline. I don't expect an aircraft order anytime soon.

Is hiring 56 a month and going to 64 a month in January not enough for you?

flyingpuma1 07-27-2019 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by MCDUmanipulator (Post 2860279)
Is hiring 56 a month and going to 64 a month in January not enough for you?



Sure now they are hiring but that’s only because we are so short they thought they could get away with it.

“So this summer, Spirit did what most cost-conscious airlines try once they’re tired of spending a fortune to fix operational woes. Spirit reduced some of the costly changes, flying aircraft more hours each day, and cutting the number of pilots held in reserve for unexpected flying”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/skift.c...t-corners/amp/



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