Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Spirit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/)
-   -   Possible Plane Order (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/119235-possible-plane-order.html)

Bluewaffle 07-29-2019 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 2861160)
319s are going the way of the dodo bird. Like it all you want, it burns way too much gas for what it does.

Well that depends on how cheap you can get them. If I have to fly the A220 for 20 years to break even on the gas then I’d say it was worth it. That doesn’t even include the cost of adding another fleet type and all the associated expenses with it.

RemoveB4flght 07-29-2019 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Bluewaffle (Post 2861155)
Hub to hub with a 100 seat airplane? I get what you’re saying about flexibility but there’s really not that many “missions” specific to the A220 that Delta has exploited so far. For slot restricted airports it doesn’t make such sense and for a much cheaper price you can get a used 319 to do the same thing. Fancy airplane but I don’t I see the appeal really.

Comes down to fuel. The red eye connection between hubs might sell low, but necessary to connect onward passengers to international flights etc.

100 on a fuel miser A220 > 100 on a 757

Halon1211 07-29-2019 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by Softpayman (Post 2861160)
319s are going the way of the dodo bird. Like it all you want, it burns way too much gas for what it does.

I wonder if they have an A319NEO

GrumpyCaptain 07-29-2019 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 2861310)
I wonder if they have an A319NEO

Google 319NEO? Answer yes, zero orders from airlines.

Name User 07-29-2019 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by GrumpyCaptain (Post 2861335)
Google 319NEO? Answer yes, zero orders from airlines.

I had heard from management during a crew news session the 321 costs $5m more than a 319.

So for $5m you get like 50% more seats for a what, 15% increase in fuel?

The only reason Delta and JetBlue bought the CSeries is because they paid 70% off list @ $25m a copy.

David Puddy 07-29-2019 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2861449)
I had heard from management during a crew news session the 321 costs $5m more than a 319.

So for $5m you get like 50% more seats for a what, 15% increase in fuel?

The only reason Delta and JetBlue bought the CSeries is because they paid 70% off list @ $25m a copy.

Yeah, I guess the 20% improved efficiency, the ability to fly either short hops or 3,000 miles on longer/thinner routes profitably and the vastly improved passenger ergonomics (large bins, big windows providing more light and preferred 2x3 seating) meant nothing... Sure, price is a factor, but Delta won’t negotiate if it can’t get a great deal and the manufacturers know it. Delta buys in bulk and it will take risk with launch orders (Delta also wants to be the launch order for the proposed 797).

Delta, JB, Air Canada and David Neeleman (new airline start-up Moxy) ordered the A220/CSeries because it is an innovative game changer that can squeeze profits out of competitive or new routes. So, I take it you didn’t read this article that provides some great insight:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysis-airbus-a220-is-killing-it-at-delta/

cynicalaviator 07-30-2019 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by David Puddy (Post 2861462)
Yeah, I guess the 20% improved efficiency, the ability to fly either short hops or 3,000 miles on longer/thinner routes profitably and the vastly improved passenger ergonomics (large bins, big windows providing more light and preferred 2x3 seating) meant nothing... Sure, price is a factor, but Delta won’t negotiate if it can’t get a great deal and the manufacturers know it. Delta buys in bulk and it will take risk with launch orders (Delta also wants to be the launch order for the proposed 797).

Delta, JB, Air Canada and David Neeleman (new airline start-up Moxy) ordered the A220/CSeries because it is an innovative game changer that can squeeze profits out of competitive or new routes. So, I take it you didn’t read this article that provides some great insight:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/anal...g-it-at-delta/

Air France is also rumoured to place a big 70 plane order for the A220.

putzin 07-30-2019 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by David Puddy (Post 2861462)
Yeah, I guess the 20% improved efficiency, the ability to fly either short hops or 3,000 miles on longer/thinner routes profitably and the vastly improved passenger ergonomics (large bins, big windows providing more light and preferred 2x3 seating) meant nothing... Sure, price is a factor, but Delta won’t negotiate if it can’t get a great deal and the manufacturers know it. Delta buys in bulk and it will take risk with launch orders (Delta also wants to be the launch order for the proposed 797).

Delta, JB, Air Canada and David Neeleman (new airline start-up Moxy) ordered the A220/CSeries because it is an innovative game changer that can squeeze profits out of competitive or new routes. So, I take it you didn’t read this article that provides some great insight:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysis-airbus-a220-is-killing-it-at-delta/

I guess, efficiency or not, I just don't see us ordering 100 planes that are that small, even the 300 series. It does look like a great replacement for the 319 but probably not worth the cost of another fleet type? And I'm kind of thinking since the airplane is gaining popularity the deals are not as good as they used to be.

Guess we'll know in Aug or Sept.. Whatever they order it'll be better than a merger or ordering nothing.

LandGreen 07-30-2019 10:28 AM

You guys are spinning your wheels arguing about the A220. It’s going to be a 737max order. The writing is on the wall

David Puddy 07-30-2019 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by putzin (Post 2861844)
I guess, efficiency or not, I just don't see us ordering 100 planes that are that small, even the 300 series. It does look like a great replacement for the 319 but probably not worth the cost of another fleet type? And I'm kind of thinking since the airplane is gaining popularity the deals are not as good as they used to be.

Guess we'll know in Aug or Sept.. Whatever they order it'll be better than a merger or ordering nothing.

After the MAX debacle, you could argue having a single fleet type could be risky going forward. A lot of single-fleet airlines (including SWA) are at least reconsidering that strategy. If new fleet types are ultra-efficient, they could potentially pay for themselves in terms of new-fleet entry costs.

Do you want to know why JB chose the A220? This article offers a good explanation (including the all-important decision factors):

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...e-a220-450121/

It's a pretty insightful article. Having a dual fleet can be a good thing depending upon the routes flown. No doubt cost is a factor, but JB was looking at the A220 more strategically as the article describes.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands