Furloughs?
07-04-2020, 09:12 AM
#51
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
Besides that, isn’t a reduced line value the same as taking a pay cut?
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
Just calling it something different? Same thing could be achieved by reducing hourly pay and keeping line guarantee.
Not exactly advocating for either of those options, but most people can distinguish between the two. And one would maintain the same hourly wage which - when the hours came back up - would self correct. Either the ALV would be increased or there would be more premium pay. The other wouldn’t necessarily do that.
Last edited by Excargodog; 07-04-2020 at 09:39 AM.
07-04-2020, 09:43 AM
#52
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
In that case whats the difference than us taking VIL every month. It’s a pay cut right?
07-04-2020, 09:47 AM
#53
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Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 612
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
Ok skippy, no need to get upset. That’s why I said I have no idea what JB negotiated. I just stated that I wasn’t willing to discuss concessions. Besides that, isn’t a reduced line value the same as taking a pay cut? Just calling it something different? Same thing could be achieved by reducing hourly pay and keeping line guarantee.
07-04-2020, 10:11 AM
#54
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
That’s a personal choice my friend. Not unilaterally imposed on anyone.
I pulled this up from another thread that explains it, the only difference is our line holder and reserve guarantee is at 72 hrs.
Originally Posted by disenchantMINT
I think there may be a misperception here that is important to clarify. At JetBlue, ALV is just that: Average Line Value. It has no bearing on anyone's minimum pay. Minimum pay is governed by the MMG, which is 70 for lineholders and 75 for reserves. They could drop the ALV to 20 and everyone would be paid 70 or 75. So if anyone is getting their panties in a wad over JB potentially dropping ALV, maybe some introspection on why a certain Air Line pilot group negotiated that a reserve gets paid based on ALV is in order instead of cries that JB is dragging down the industry.
Last edited by Silver02ex; 07-04-2020 at 10:23 AM.
07-04-2020, 10:49 AM
#55
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,181
Originally Posted by KIGECA97531
Care Bear is just sour grapes that he left allegiant to go to the bottom of your list and now faces furlough, where if he stayed here he'd be in good shape, even with a furlough.
Allegiant has said several times now they they aren't planning to furlough, unless the second wave results in more lockdowns, but that probably holds true for everyone. If there are more lockdowns there will be some airline liquidations.
Allegiant has zero international flights. The closest we get to international is foreign nationals driving across the border to catch our flights in places like Bellingham WA, Grand Forks ND, Ogdensburg NY, Niagra Falls, El Paso, and McAllen TX. All of that has completely dried up, but was probably only 10% or less of our total operation.
Allegiant has said several times now they they aren't planning to furlough, unless the second wave results in more lockdowns, but that probably holds true for everyone. If there are more lockdowns there will be some airline liquidations.
Allegiant has zero international flights. The closest we get to international is foreign nationals driving across the border to catch our flights in places like Bellingham WA, Grand Forks ND, Ogdensburg NY, Niagra Falls, El Paso, and McAllen TX. All of that has completely dried up, but was probably only 10% or less of our total operation.
That place sucked so so much ass it’s not even funny. If it didn’t blow, wtf is the bottom 300 a revolving door? Why did only 24 people out of 2000+ leave Spirit for “greener pastures” last year?
When the DSM base was announced (which is yet to actually open) I just laughed my ass off. You can choose to believe that I somehow have massive regrets leaving a ghetto operation or not. I could care less. You do you, homie.
Ill show you my schedules and the flexibility to do virtually anything I want to do and it will make sense pretty damn quick why Im
here, as well as other ex AAY.
Have fun continuously getting bent over by Maury and Co. Good riddance.
07-04-2020, 11:04 AM
#56
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
Imposed on everyone? explain to me how reducing our ALV makes any difference to reserves or those who bid min line value so they can work little as possible? For example, for July in LAS, our ALV is 74 hrs. If you reduced it down to 72 or 65, those credit hrs has to go somewhere else, which is other pilots. It then requires more lines and more reserve. By reducing the ALV you're woking less for less pay, which is why i brought up the example of VIL. You still get your guarantee of 72 hrs at a current rate even if your line valve is below 72. If you're not happy of 74 hrs for ALV (or whatever it is for that month). pick up a trip from IOT or DOT then. All that LOA is doing is taking those extra credit hrs and spreading it out, which require more staffing. Our historic ALV has been 78 ish and now it's around 74, and no one is complaining but, if we take it down and still keep guarantee pay and pay rates so it protect junior pilots, it's a concession?
I pulled this up from another thread that explains it, the only difference is our line holder and reserve guarantee is at 72 hrs.
I pulled this up from another thread that explains it, the only difference is our line holder and reserve guarantee is at 72 hrs.
On that note, pay me 50 hrs a month until 65 and I’ll be happy to save someone from getting furloughed. Lol
07-04-2020, 11:08 AM
#57
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Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Balker
JB did not sign a new concessionary contract. It’s a LOA for a specific period of time that expires on May ‘21. I wouldn’t sign a concessionary contract for sure, but a fair temporary compromise to save furloughs? I definitely would. I’m mid seniority so not worried about getting furlough myself , but can’t be an assh*le and say “screw the junior guys”.
It’s highly likely JB will be among the few (maybe the only) pax carrier than won’t furlough thru the pandemic.Pilots will get back their original contract in May ‘21 and many families will spared.
It’s highly likely JB will be among the few (maybe the only) pax carrier than won’t furlough thru the pandemic.Pilots will get back their original contract in May ‘21 and many families will spared.
Whatever way you look at it, you are still making less at the end of the day. It comes from somewhere.
07-04-2020, 11:11 AM
#58
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Mtnbikemike
Whatever way you look at it, you are still making less at the end of the day. It comes from somewhere.
07-04-2020, 11:25 AM
#59
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by Excargodog
No question. It is a transfer of flying (and the associated pay that goes with it) from the senior guys/gals to the junior guys/gals. But from the management standpoint it’s sort of a zero sum game except for training costs incurred or averted.
07-04-2020, 11:35 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Da Bus, Left
Posts: 1,510
Regardless of one’s viewpoint, it better go to the pilot group for a vote and not unilaterally imposed. We’ve already been down that road of a MEC chairman making decisions for the whole group and that didn’t go over very well....
Still waiting for my quid....
I’m more wary of the precedent it sets, especially with this company. Give them an inch, they’ll want another mile. We lower ALV, they say okay that’ll protect 200, but if you pause DOS+3/4 that’ll protect more..... You see where I’m going???
Still waiting for my quid....
I’m more wary of the precedent it sets, especially with this company. Give them an inch, they’ll want another mile. We lower ALV, they say okay that’ll protect 200, but if you pause DOS+3/4 that’ll protect more..... You see where I’m going???
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