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Attrition

Old 09-11-2022, 05:30 PM
  #2011  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Where did you pull these numbers from? Certainly not my posting. And yes, Iíd rather have a steep slope upwards because the rate of increase ACCELERATES with time. A 5% per year per year seniority increase over the course of even the first 12 years gives a 1.8 TIMES first year CA or FO salary PLUS all the annual increases because of compound interest. Obviously, you donít understand compound interest, but you might be able to find a Middle schooler who could explain it to you.

Itís why we have 401ks and IRAs for crying out loud.
What does compound interest have to do with a pay scale? Zip. Youíre not nearly as clever as you think you are.
The condescension doesnít help your case either.

Advocating for captains starting in the 2ís is defeatist and way off the mark.
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Old 09-11-2022, 05:33 PM
  #2012  
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Originally Posted by OneplusF View Post
What does compound interest have to do with a pay scale? Zip. Youíre not nearly as clever as you think you are.
The condescension doesnít help your case either.

Advocating for captains starting in the 2ís is defeatist and way off the mark.
Do the mathÖ
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Old 09-11-2022, 06:10 PM
  #2013  
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Originally Posted by CLE to IAH View Post
You made quite the leap there. i donít care if they leave or donít.

What I DO care about is how many people are forced to accept the job without being told up front what they pay and benefits areÖÖ
You and me both brother. That would be pretty terrible. Buuuut considering about 25% of the pilot group is on ďfirst yer perĒ, thatís a pretty large group of people to say **** off to whose biggest concern is a pay raise. But good on you dude. Must definitely be the 12 yer cerptain per thatís causing the attrition problem.
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Old 09-12-2022, 03:20 AM
  #2014  
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Originally Posted by CLE to IAH View Post
You made quite the leap there. i donít care if they leave or donít.

What I DO care about is how many people are forced to accept the job without being told up front what they pay and benefits areÖÖ
Thereís some level of personal responsibility and due diligence that should be expected.
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Old 09-12-2022, 03:27 AM
  #2015  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
See above. Do the math.
​​​​​​​We are doing the math. And responding to you. Mainly so others learn to ignore your ideas, but perhaps so you can reconsider yours.
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Old 09-12-2022, 05:50 AM
  #2016  
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Originally Posted by Swarley View Post
You and me both brother. That would be pretty terrible. Buuuut considering about 25% of the pilot group is on ďfirst yer perĒ, thatís a pretty large group of people to say **** off to whose biggest concern is a pay raise. But good on you dude. Must definitely be the 12 yer cerptain per thatís causing the attrition problem.

my post was not (and never should be) taken as an actual discussion marker or a researched response. My post was just to antagonize one particular poster who dominates and twists every thread and every topic with his crusade on first year pay and insults/attacks anyone who has other solutions.

i also agree first year pay is dog ****. I think our whole scale is dog ****. I am also doing my part to remedy this (which does not include using apc as a serious avenue for fixation)

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Old 09-12-2022, 08:05 AM
  #2017  
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Originally Posted by CLE to IAH View Post
my post was not (and never should be) taken as an actual discussion marker or a researched response. My post was just to antagonize one particular poster who dominates and twists every thread and every topic with his crusade on first year pay and insults/attacks anyone who has other solutions.

i also agree first year pay is dog ****. I think our whole scale is dog ****. I am also doing my part to remedy this (which does not include using apc as a serious avenue for fixation)

couldnt agree more. An online forum would be a silly place to discuss any actual negotiation tactics. But believe it or not, your arguments are the exact same I hear all the time in the cockpit, strangely enough more often from junior captains. When specifically addressing the attrition problem, apparently they think year 1-5 guys are leaving because 12 year CA pay just isnít enough. The kicker is that they will say (regarding raising 1st year pay) that itís the companyís responsibility to attract people and 1st year pay isnít the unions problem, but when the simple solution is presented, youíd think someone just came in and shot your dog or something the way you react.
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Old 09-12-2022, 09:00 AM
  #2018  
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Originally Posted by Swarley View Post
couldnt agree more. An online forum would be a silly place to discuss any actual negotiation tactics. But believe it or not, your arguments are the exact same I hear all the time in the cockpit, strangely enough more often from junior captains. When specifically addressing the attrition problem, apparently they think year 1-5 guys are leaving because 12 year CA pay just isn’t enough. The kicker is that they will say (regarding raising 1st year pay) that it’s the company’s responsibility to attract people and 1st year pay isn’t the unions problem, but when the simple solution is presented, you’d think someone just came in and shot your dog or something the way you react.
Agree with the last. Somehow it’s quite acceptable for people who have reached a point of sufficient financial stability that their prosperity is assured to say it’s quite acceptable to screw over the newbies (after all, I went through it when I was a newbie and I survived it) but I can well imagine what the cockpit atmosphere would be like the rest of the flight if one of those newbies opined that since there was no serious attrition of senior CAs all future contract improvements should be targeted towards the FOs and junior (non line holder) CAs where the attrition is actually occurring.

A union should look out for EVERYONE it represents, not depending on management to take care of anyone. You know, union - as in ‘unity’? Not ‘screw the junior people as long as I get mine.’
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Old 09-12-2022, 09:30 AM
  #2019  
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When is the union going to come out with some information about the negotiations? Any rumors?
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Old 09-12-2022, 10:36 AM
  #2020  
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Originally Posted by Swarley View Post
couldnt agree more. An online forum would be a silly place to discuss any actual negotiation tactics. But believe it or not, your arguments are the exact same I hear all the time in the cockpit, strangely enough more often from junior captains. When specifically addressing the attrition problem, apparently they think year 1-5 guys are leaving because 12 year CA pay just isnít enough. The kicker is that they will say (regarding raising 1st year pay) that itís the companyís responsibility to attract people and 1st year pay isnít the unions problem, but when the simple solution is presented, youíd think someone just came in and shot your dog or something the way you react.

do you think Iím making an argument? Because Iím sure Iím not.

come. Go. Upgrade. Downgrade. I donít care. People are going to do what they are going to do.

my only argument(s) are this

itís not getting solved on apc
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