Yup. Done it a few times. If they open PHL as a co base, with more flights out of PHL, with that longer drive, at 50% surface deadhead pay(1hr/2hrpay); im saying my original point, that this isnt something that just happens in a vacuum that only affects 1 base.

MIA and FLL is a compliant CObase if they do it. If they do it or dont do it, pilots from all bases are required to make the surface DH to those bases. Making a base easier for a cobase (over the contractual limit, not MIA/FLL) only makes it easier for the company to grow those bases. Growing those bases while shuffling pilots back and forth at ground transportation pay is something that affects all pilots, not just a single base pilot

And down the rabbit hole we went...Original point was discussing what we will give up on a public forum, based on what 1 base wants. Ill personally leave it at that.

The Union may or may not “listen”, but you can bet your butt the company or someone they’ve hired is paying attention to these forums and posts. Figure it out.

Good, I want the company to know since the union won't tell them what we want. And just to be clear, I don't want to give ANYTHING for the PHL-ACY co-base. In fact, I'm sure we can get something if we give them the 6 miles.

why do you think PHL would have to be a base (co base or
not) for this scenario? A LAS crew flies to ACY on a pairing. Next segment of the pairing is a surface DH to Philly. Flies rest of trip, ends in LAS. What does base have to do with it? It could be a surface DH between stations

Asked and answered. The horse has been beaten to death on this. CoBase language is 50 miles and ACY to PHL is greater than that. That’s the end of that.

For now…..

Suggest you reread 8-C. No distance limitation. So with current contract they can't cobase ACY and PHL, but they can and do start trips in ACY, with a limo to PHL.

I dont need to reread. I never said anything about ground transportation limits, I said cobase is at 50 and unless something is given up, it cant be a base. Again, this has been beaten to death. Ive already said my opinion on why a cobase could lead to an increase in ground transportation versus what we see now.

Simply put, and for the last time; if the company wants a base in PHL, let them make it a base and staff it as a base, its outside of 50 miles. Making PHL a stand alone base would reduce the amount of ground limos from ACY-PHL-ACY, wouldn't you think? If PHL has their own pilots, why make crews limo back and forth. IF they co base, then the limos back and forth will continue and probably increase as they increase the flying out of PHL. This affects us all, as we have all done the limo, and I think it sucks.

My point has always been I dont feel actions of 1 base or unique to only affect that one base.

Ronny and I differ on whether cobasing affects other bases outside of the cobase. We agree to disagree. Horse beaten to a bloody pulp at this point. And none of this changed without member ratification, as something in this scope is probably considered too large for any LOA from the MEC. It affects us all.

Or here is a novel idea: just staff the philly flying the same way they do now with overnights or flying that flows through from other bases. Mini bases stagnate growth in other domiciles and lead to less flexibility.

Misread your post, and agree with your reply. I’ll be quiet now.

People are putting more thought into how a PHL base would work on this thread than management is.

I remember someone posting an excellent transcript of a Jeff Miller recurrent fireside chat a few months ago. Jeff said that not having pilots flow through bases is a killer when on irop. He used an example of those trips where you leave a base and do MYR turns for 4 days and head back to a base. He feels that having crew support at more stations is a help, assuming he means x/y list and reserve staffing.

Makes sense, we don’t go hub and spoke like legacy carriers do, we go out and stay out and the more bases we have, the more likely we are to adjust with new crews on the fly. Southwest shows 12 pilot domiciles on this site. Assume it’s for a lot of the same reasons Jeff mentioned.

But I agree, more bases will stagnate growth in bases but if there is a “upside” he did also mention that it could help with these pairing mixes we have, all these 4 days in some bases.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepoin...interview/amp/

Or maybe LGA-EWR co-base will happen first?

Similar situation is already in the DTW open time. 4:15AM Limo from MIA-FLL. No thank you.

how is that any worse than if it were a 4:15AM show to start the day off with a MCO-FLL hop?

I guess what I’m trying to say is. You still get credited for it as if you were “flying it”. It’s no different than doing a short 1 hour flight... Plus you are sitting in the back of the limo not doing any work.

Same reason why I don’t like deadheads.

As you said “you still get credited as if you were “flying it”.”
Do you honestly enjoy deadheads because you’re getting paid as if you’re flying it?


I don’t like sitting on a plane DH and I don’t like sitting in the back of a car, or “limo,” stuck in herky jerky bumper to bumper traffic on I-95

I agree I don’t like DH either. But I’m saying it not any worse than a DH.

someone call my name?

I’m thinking the sedan/SUV/sprinter van or whatever will be significantly more comfortable than 6C. I’m not lookin go forward to it, but whatever. Crisscrossing the NE in a sedan to get to a plane at another airport was routine in a past life. I’ll live if I have to do it once a month here.

Or bid away from it.

Have you been in any of our ground transportation? Do you understand the type of people that get hired for these jobs? Do you understand stand how they are compensated? Do you know how a van with half a million miles is maintained. Ground transportation either between airports or to layovers is by far the most dangerous part of our job. Bumper to bumper is slightly safer because speed is reduced but you get the bonus of car sickness instead.

Some of the outrageous driving I’ve seen I’m amazed at how many pilots and FAs sit back and watch it happen without a peep to the driver to slow the hell down. I figure at least once a 4 day I’m telling a driver to slow down. Speeding in fog another lovely experience.

Throw in 8.C.2 below and I have zero interest in doing any surface DH. The ride to the hotel is risky enough.

2. When the Company requires that deadheading be by surface transportation, a pilot will be paid and credited with one hour of flight pay and credit at his applicable rate for each two hours of scheduled surface deadhead time computed on the basis of AAA mileage at 43 miles per hour.

Dogs and cats living together…mass hysteria!

Bid away from those trips if it keeps you up at night.

Still trying to find where I get “credited as if I were flying it”. I’ll keep looking. 🤔

on your schedule...

when I did a surface DH from MIA to FLL I got exactly 1 hour of pay for mine. Maybe they just don’t like you.

8.C.2
When the Company requires that deadheading be by surface transportation, a pilot will be paid and credited with one hour of flight pay and credit at his applicable rate for each two hours of scheduled surface deadhead time computed on the basis of AAA mileage at 43 miles per hour.

Exactly.

Filler for Halon

okay so that just proves my point. You get paid for a surface deadhead...not sure what you were trying to get at.

no filler needed for CinoDeMayo.

Try again. Dual Input has the contract language. I can't spoon feed it any easier; it is not the same pay. Just because management hasn't calculated the FLL-MIA drive, doesnt mean it wont change to be contractually compliant eventually.

Remember back in 2018 when we were paid block or better per leg? And then they changed the software to be contractually compliant to pay block or better per duty period? Or were you not here then?

Dudes, we have our own Dr of Deadheads on this board. Why not just ask the ask the expert?

Haha. He will just tell us to go to UAL or DAL and how much Spirit sucks

when did I say Spirit sucks? I just said new hires at Spirit are going to leave for the the big 3...which is what a lot are doing.

Try to keep up…nobody said you.

Ah you are right, I apologize you were talking about someone else.

...My mind was preoccupied on my next troll victim.

thank you, Sir. That said - Too much dong water in this post to contribute as my boi CLE-IAH would say.

plz ***** about something so I can go back to hating you….. because posts like this give me a crush.

Nearly every "Church van" style shuttle ride I've had has either the Check Engine or Tire Pressure light illuminated.
You're right, I don't say anything, but maybe I should. I'd sure hate to blow a tire doing 80 down a Texas tollway while strapped to a wobbly bench with no headrest.

what really surprises me is how few pilots wear seatbelts. They think because they are in a van they are automatically safe in a car accident?

let me tell you I have worked as an paramedic in a previous life and, if your van flips or rolls, you are going to be ejected. Doesn’t matter what you are riding in.

When you get thrown from the van and go flying through the window even going 40mph—Your going to look really gnarly at your funeral.

not if you’re a cremation fan 😂

Ya I put my seat bealt on every time and get strange looks haha. I’m like bro I’m not trying to have my head popped like a watermelon. When I was at my regional we had a few van crashes. Some of the drivers got their license from a Cracker Jack box.

Safety report pls. The drivers need to be spoken to for speeding by us on the spot, and spirit needs to know of transportation equipment in unsafe condition as well as the speeding in a safety report. We have an accident and spirit will say well we didn’t know there were issues because no one said anything

You're totally right. I may just start doing that now.
And as for seatbelts, I always wear mine, but I agree, few others do. I'm always amazed.