I’d make them pay year 1 @ $150 an hour with full insurance and 75 hr MMG starting day one of intro. That way it would actually make it more cost effective to raise everyone’s pay than to allow attrition and backfill with newbies. That’s a far more rationale (and humane) plan than just continuing to cr@p on the newbies.

Right now the management seems to be entirely happy to operate an airline with soon-to-be-topped-out-at-old-rates CA over 12s and guys barely off consolidation. Cinco’s screw-our-junior-brethren plan doesn’t seem to be very effective, and it is hurting our junior brethren.

You’re incredibly ignorant. Those horrible training rates and first year pay is the only chance we have to get gains for all. So if you call using that leverage to benefit all of us, so be it. I’ll gladly admit that.

Anyone on first year understands that the gains will be worth it, if they choose to stay. If they don’t, I wish them best.

So you repeatedly assert. Yet Alaska made gains for all, without screwing over their newbies.

Worth it or not worth it is not the issue. Necessary and effective is the issue, and so far no evidence whatsoever of either.

So how long must this not work before you’ll admit you are wrong?

Right now newbies are being used by management as cheap replacements for attrition. For all practical purposes, negating the leverage that attrition would otherwise give you. Threatening management with having to backfill people leaving with even cheaper replacements doesn’t seem like it’s the threat you claim it is.

I’m picturing excargo like this

https://theaudiodope.files.wordpress...mer-fran1.jpeg

Curious what people and management think is gonna happen with the influx of pilots. Y’all have bad attrition but had a well of fresh pilots to bring in but with the increases at regionals the only thing NK really has to offer is a320 type and maybe bases that might be attractive to those who currently commute. The prospect of an instant $10 raise off old rates which then doubled year two was great but with the recent huge increases the pay aspect isn’t a huge pull to regional pilots. Best case it’s a lateral move financially at this point. I don’t see spirit being as attractive and I don’t see as many people readily jumping ship to join. Begs the question with problems keeping people already and the regional pool drying up what’s company gonna do

But can you either prove any of Cinco’s assertions or disprove any of mine? That’s the issue, not your fantasies.

I don't think he's saying to fix everyone's pay and leave 1st year crap...

But maybe you're saying fix 1st year and not give everyone else a raise? Otherwise I don't understand the argument.

Management needs to fix 1st year pay, the union says "yes, and also bring everyone else up to current market".

Not hard.

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Filler filler….

If it were up to Cargo, he would have agreed to an LOA with management a year ago to bring FO pay up for first year and then he would scratching his head today wondering why management has no intention or motivation to schedule early openers.

But like CLE said, Cargo gets off on making himself the champion of the first year pay.

But here is the irony, I’ll bring you up to speed. Ol Cargo used to be at Compass and he would come on the Spirit forums and chastise first year pay and proclaim how he would never come here because he can make more at Compass. One bankrupt company later, now he is here, for the same pay he swore he would never work for. However his song remains the same. The American pilots had to return him from their forums because he became an annoyance over there.

Irony has nothing to do with it. Right now the issue is sort of one about scope. Attrition isn’t bothering management much because everybody being lost is being replaced by someone cheaper. Unless and until nobody is accepting CJOs from NK, management can tolerate the current attrition forever. Cinco continues with this argument that allowing first year guys to be. Screwed somehow gives everybody else tremendous leverage, but there is scant evidence to support that. We’ve had first year people at this ridiculous pay level since 2018 and the alleged “leverage” hasn’t worked so far.

So I ask again, Cinco, how long does this shibboleth of yours of screwing over the newbie have to not work before you admit it’s not working?