Unless he was on the negotiating committee (he wasn’t) then he has no more “experience with the management team” than anyone else.

As for what we can expect from management? It’s not really some secret: The absolute least amount of ground they have to concede to keep the metal moving. In the history of airline negotiations there has never been a management group who have come to the table with empathy and concern that pilots will feel validated and appreciated. Any gains they concede will be solely out of recognition of pilot market scarcity, and not one single dollar more.

Anything above that will require pilot unity, which is where his opinion and vote means the same as the noob he told to keep their mouth shut.

He’s already told the NC his preference was a quick and dirty TA that would not involve teams of lawyers and cost analysts.

Now it’s simply a numbers game. They know a pay raise is inevitable, but each day it’s put off is found money as payroll is the most controllable expense. The other side of that scale is gambling on attrition, combined with examples of other airlines pay raises. They make decisions based on balance sheets and projections, not based on how they think pilots will feel vs their peers.

You don’t have to be a grizzled Spirit veteran to understand this is a zero sum game.

It's pretty clear to those with more experience the other guy was exhibiting undue optimism and naivete. He wasn't demonstrating the realities you present, and they were pointing that out. Nothing about votes...

You are like the more intelligent version of our Bandwagon/Softpayman. That's not a compliment.

Which is why we need 100% retro pay!

retro to when, exactly?

we’re in early opener now.

Well that is fantastic. Hopefully this means you've learned to manage your expectations and won't be disappointed when they start playing games with us.

But…but they can’t play games!! They need pilots and Bendo said he wants a fast TA!!

GMAFB!

And my quid! With interest!

By that measure you have exactly zero experience with NK management/negotiations, which means when it comes to anything related to a TA you should dutifully follow Cinco’s opinion about keeping your mouth shut :)

Retro always. With every new contract signed. With every airline.

Period.

And yet when I mention it to CAs and FOs I'm usually met with "What's retro pay mean?"

And if you think we're going to get a contract accomplished in early openers... well... I hope you're right, but I highly doubt it. I expect nothing less than the last contract series of events to play out long term, only to get thrown in the trash once the merger is complete. I hope I'm wrong.

Listen to, or read in your email, the latest Podcast talking about contract 2018. (IDK if you were here or not, but it's the one I was here for.) That's the sugarcoated version. It was way worse. And then read about Contract 9000, which I was not here for, and ask someone who was.