How are the Apps coming along? Any luck?
 

I have always been a reader here on APC, but now I created a profile to start asking questions. I have been here at NK for 6yrs about to hit yr 7. Im a junior CA, still on reserve. After the latest news I have now sent out apps to United, Delta, and AA this week. How many of you have also done the same and have any of you heard back from any of these airlines? If so, how long did it take until you got a call, email invite etc? Hearing all the opportunities at the BIG 3 and the movement and retirements, it makes too much sense to leave. Let me know if any of you guys have gotten calls very recent and how long it took. Thanks guys!

I dont know about the other big 3, but SWA has ground hiring to a halt. They cancelled interview dates and closed the valve after 1/10.

Same situation as you, I've applied to all and still waiting to hear back. I did get the assessment from AA but haven't heard anything since then. Stay positive, good things will happen my friend

DAL: Cut hiring forecast in half for 2024. 1000 pilots instead of 2000+. (Still fantastic numbers!)

UAL: 2000 pilots in 2024. Down from 2500/yr since 21’. (Slowdown due to MAX 10 being pushed back - Straight from SVP HR during earnings call.)

AAL: Not sure about specific numbers, but haven’t heard of any changes. Probably 2000-2500 in 2024.

As you mentioned, WN: Probably no interviews for the majority of 2024 with the MAX 7 giving up certification waiver. Sounds like they have quite a bit of backlog to clear.

These are some really strong numbers! Perhaps Southwest will continue hiring in a few months too

attention all pilots: Spirit is closing DFW. All DFW pilots leave immediately. Thank You.

This is not entirely correct. Update from company last week states just under 800 new hires for this year. All classes are full for first quarter and most of second quarter (this is why interviews have slowed for a bit). I believe they were initially planning on greater turnover this year, but that has slowed drastically that may to the new contract.

Boeing just delayed certification of the MAX 7 by a Boeing nine months (which are currently running a little over two months to a Boeing month) so they may be slow rolling hiring for awhile yet.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...-7-2024-01-30/

My source in the hiring dept mentioned they have over 600 in the pool already though.

The crazy thing with a large/long pool in these crazy hiring days is that you have to ask how many of the 600 in the WN pool will be gone to AA/DL/UA before they ever get a class date at WN?

I don't seem many of the 600 waiting for the WN class date if one of the other 3 calls. This is not a slam on WN, just a realistic look at where they are in the movement opportunities among the majors.

400 to 500 of those same names are in the pools at Big-3. Those that do go to SW will likely go to Big-3 if Big-3 calls within 6 months of starting SW indoc.

100 or so are "diehard" SW'ers with parents who work for SW or a spouse who works there, etc.

No doubt, well I doubt 500/600 in two pools. The fact remains that you currently cannot even apply at SWA. Boeing delays will further reduce the need to hire.

Also the competition likely got much more fierce with JB/NK court decision, F9s airline model, FedEx & UPS, & Deltas reduction. All we need is age 67 and the hiring wave is over.

9yr captain here. I hit the submit button the day after merger was blocked. Haven't heard anhting yet but hoping something pops soon and get off the yellow submarine.

We should start flexing which level we each got to on the AA flying segment of the assessment.

No doubt that any 10 YO could have doubled my score.

Glad I beat the rush of apps. Applied back in Nov and interviewed in Dec. Currently waiting for a class date. Was told to expect May timeframe due to no classes in March and April already being full.

Which airline.

American…..

Perfect opportunity to transition to AA for all DFW/FLL based NK pilots! NPGA job fair is coming up in FEB and WAI soon after. I heard in the past AA has given CJO's on the spot. This might help some get in the door quciker.

Have you attended any job fair to get some face to face?

100 or so need to get their head examined.

Duh, timing is everything. Glad I left NK in 22’. Good on ya for getting out.

For those that are leaving after 5,6,7 years, I'm interested in your perspectives that drove you to this decision. Fully aware of GTF issues, lagging demand, debt, inept management. What else am i missing? I'm sure giving up that much seniority is not a decision you come to lightly so curious how you think the next few months/years will play out. Furloughs on the horizon? Predict a mass exodus from Spirit soon if it hasn't already started?

I'm at Spirit myself, but one of the CFI -> Airbus low-time guys, so I have fewer options with only 510 hrs turbine. I'm considering leaving as well but to maybe Atlas to get a little Widebody international experience and maybe legacy after that if I don't like it. Could be fun. Sucks though...I really enjoy flying for Spirit for the most part.

Good luck to everyone making the leap. Not an ideal scenario for most I'm sure.

I am a low time FO. Hit submit on my application to the big three last month. Along with Atlas and Frontier. I had a meet n greet at United last week and was told my application is now in the short stack now. I was invited to the AA MTC in Miami, but couldn’t attend due to work. All have internal recommendations attached to the application.

My motivation is because I don’t want to be affected by a furlough, but if enough pilots senior to be bail then I'll happily stay for a while.

Look, Spirit has been great to all of us and many have been lucky enough to call this place home for a long time. Now that the merger was denied (crazy, I know) and an appeal is a longshot, it comes down to whether or not you see a path forward for Spirit. Those that do are staying put, conversely, those that do not are applying elsewhere. I believe it's that simple. Nobody knows how it'll all work out. You just have to take a look around, make a decision on what is best for your personal situation and take action (or not).

Well put.
I'm in the camp of "I have no idea how things will turn out for Spirit", hence the question of those who've been around longer than I have and may have seen the warning signs at previous airlines. I'm retired Air Force and went through years of "force shaping" uncertainty where I didn't know if I'd have a job next year. I'm wondering if I'm in that sort of position again with Spirit and how much time I have left before the wheels fall off, so to speak.
Like you said, no one knows the answer, so make a decision thats best for you and hope it works out.

First, thanks for your service. Second, my personal opinion is that Spirit will be fine near term and we will have a clearer picture in the coming months. We will have a decision on the appeal and Spirit may be forced to lay out their plan B (perhaps sooner than later). Once we gather all that information it should help you choose one way or the other. In the meantime, it's probably wise to at least be prepared to look elsewhere (can't hurt).

I think many were waiting for the merger to be approved which certainly seemed like a no brainer considering past airline merger history.

Now there are several paths forward. Winning the appeal would seem the very least likely and best path. Liquidation is certainly on the table and the worst path. Everything in between isn’t likely to be fun. The problem is that everyday someone waits around to see how it turns out is a day someone else gets hired ahead of you somewhere else.

At some point on the seniority list anything besides liquidation is likely to be better than starting at the bottom somewhere else. Age and where you live or want to live also being outside factors.

The absolute worst would be slogging through a mess for the next couple years to ultimately liquidate anyway. All that lost seniority elsewhere and the very real possibility in a couple years other properties aren’t hiring.

Another thing to consider is getting ahead of a wave of spirit refugees if things start to get worse.

Then there is an outside chance spirits situation gets bad enough that an acquisition by another carrier does get approved. A seniority integration would most likely happen, albeit not a friendly one with spirit being a distressed (bankrupt) carrier. However, in that scenario one would still most likely be senior to themselves if they stay vs had they left and gotten hired at the bottom of the aquiring six months or a year prior to the acquisition.

In the past you just rode it out bc if your airline were going bankrupt it was likely that the rest of the industry was in hard times as well. This is kind of uncharted territory.

Age 67 would be a major wildcard that could drop a grenade on everything. Hiring will freeze everywhere. If spirit needs to furlough every single 65+ pilot will result in at least one more furlough.

I’m kind of in the same boat as you as far as being at Spirit,

about to hit the submit button to American, kinda eyeballing United not sure.

somebody else asked earlier what drove you to want to leave Spirit. and the simple truth is, it’s just a realization that there’s really no more growth with ULCC’s especially if the stupid governments gonna block this merger.

I really didn’t want to leave.. I really enjoy it here, easy job I feel like I get paid a lot of money. Sometimes, I feel like there’s just kind of something missing. Like an incomplete puzzle to me..

been deciding if that is really worth it to leave and it’s a close call, but I think in the end it needs to happen.

Me when someone senior to me says they’re bailing.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/JXgfqyQ-s...arped-face.gif

While the future as always a bit of a crapshoot, getting in with a legacy puts you on the path to being a $300/hr FO within a decade.

Some things become a self fulfilling prophecy. Junior attrition was a problem even before the failure of the merger and the P&W engine problems. And with the hiring wave continuing apace in the legacies (UA is now giving out NB CA slots in intro, and they are going junior - indeed, some of their most junior are being forced into them if they have the requisite 121 time) that may well move up into more of our junior CAs who are looking at years of stagnation anyway and realistically, if furloughs happen might well be seeing downgrades. And that alone may FORCE the more junior FOs (who have little seniority to lose anyway) to start looking for elsewhere to go. No doubt P&W will be required to try to make the company whole economically for the downtime but that's still flying that isn't happening and little inducement to stay. It's also clear that it didn't take NK to go to JetBlue to undercut the ULCC model, the Big Three are now doing that quite effectively with their "basic economy" fares today.

If the attrition becomes great enough, or if the out of service aircraft become great enough to furlough/downgrade, the loss of pilots in this hiring environment could well cause a death spiral into bankruptcy.

Smooth move, judge...

For any of you guys applying at American,

have they changed that website in the last couple of years that you apply at? Can’t seem to find the original website. also, do you know if you still have to do the video questions you submit first before you do the in person interview?

Today.

xxxxxx

you are right , better to stay and end up making $0.00 without a job in the near future . Smart logic to you .

We've seen this dynamic throughout the history of commercial aviation. The first ones out of a shrinking/failing carrier are typically the most junior. In a cruel twist of fate they end up very senior to the last ones out. It completely flips the seniority list...

I know guys who left America West for American and US Airways. Whoops!

Not what I was saying dumbazz but you're a genius. I personally recommend taking off.

Or Alaska pilots who left for Hawaiian. At least they’ll be fenced in on widebody or one leg flying.

You’re not missing anything and have hit all the key points I find alarming. The truth is no one knows how NK or the rest of the industry will look in the next decade. I’ve been doing this job for more than two decades and it looks completely different then when I started.

Make a decision based on the knowledge you have and go with it. Don’t worry about what everyone else is doing. Half these guys, especially captains that say they’re leaving are blowing smoke. We all hear about their lifestyles and no way they can take the pay cut or go back to the right seat.

Until the past year, the thought of leaving never crossed my mind. I love the guys we fly with and schedule flexibility is second to none. Our leaders have made moves like base reductions and flip flop merger decisions have made me question this decision. Is leaving the correction decision, idk ask me when I retire.

Roughly 48,000 legacy pilots. Not one of them has applied to Spirit. Can they all be wrong?