Not necessarily.

The idea is that we need some sort of national seniority status to protect unionized pilots who are literally forced out of their positions, so that every time the powerful monopolistic legacies decide to come together and steamroll the smaller competition, the labor groups aren't all forced to start over at year 1 pay with zero seniority. Not saying everyone keeps all of their seniority, but at least some of it to prevent management teams from eternally whipsawing all of our pilot groups. And honestly I don't really know what the answer would be.

But none of this matters as it will never happen.

I love this job but IMO the biggest downside to airline flying is that there is no sense of brotherhood or camaraderie within the group as a whole. Like, at all. Everyone is a lone wolf "army of one" type and that means only looking out for oneself generally.


We saw this at the regionals. There were folks who were generally excited that their company, and hence their seniority list, was growing at the expense of the livelihoods of others as mainline partners shifted the flying around. However the big unknown was that we were always wondering which pilot group was going to be next.

It's all great and wonderful until it happens to your company.

 

As you say, will never happen.

1. Companies don't want to pay new hires high longevity pay & bennies, just because they were senior somewhere else.
2. The legacy pilots wouldn't go for it, since they know it would mostly be a benefit afforded to other pilots at their expense.

There's no whipsaw at the majors, but there certainly is at the regionals, so that's another reason legacies and regionals wouldn't go for it.


It's not like the military, the only mission to accomplish is stay safe.

I prefer the "enlighted self-interest" approach whereby a rising tide lifts all boats. But ultimately we're all there to make money and go home to our familes asap.

I'll take camaraderie at work if I can find it, but really that's what I have friends for. Too hit and miss at the airline.

 

Yes it does. If flight attendants got $200K then we wouldn't be getting $500K. Only so much revenue to go around.

 

100 percent

 

This is a terrible idea which is why it hasn't been implemented.

We don't "need" a national seniority list. The system works fine the way it is.

Its just a ridiculous idea really. It might work for some other unionized industries, but its not a good fit for airline pilots.

 

Also other industries are allowed to have one union for an entire industry, which covers all employers. For whatever reason the RLA doesn't allow airlines to do that, so we have to have separate unions at each shop.

 

Is it a terrible idea because it's bad for you on an individual level, or are there actual reasons for why this would be terrible for the industry as a whole?

It's not a personal jab, but I'm just curious why you feel that way.

 

Why should a pilot's sweat equity at an airline be thrown away as soon as some other pilot who was at a competing airline that went out of business all of a sudden have someone come ahead of them at their own airline? That makes no sense. Maybe give them credit for their length of serive in their new hire class placement, but not just fly at Brand X for 20 years and then when they go out of business get to hop over to United etc and be a 777 CA because they have seniority and push down pilots that have been waiting there to upgrade.

There is an integration framework in place for mergers already that works fine. All other new hires start out at the bottom like we have been doing the last 98 years of airline pilot hiring.

 

I am opposed to it for what you said above. I didn’t struggle to where I’m at to get beat by a new hire rj lifer. Basically I started as the plug so why should you be senior to me?

still, an interesting discussion. There was a suppressed effort at this in the 80s and 90s by some of the ALPA national guys.

 

“To the victor goes the spoils”. Pick the right horse and the career will work out fine, otherwise, there will be a starting over point. It is what it is, as a NK guy moving on I don’t like going back to year 1 at the bottom, but this was the risk when I went to Spirit

Likewise because I took a risk on Spirit, and the possible upside, I would not like other pilots from a failed airline coming in over me; whether that means bases, bidding, or higher wages than me.