Got news for you dude, when your airline’s little sale-leaseback ponzi scheme ends, you’ll be hemorrhaging cash too. Your product isn’t any better than NK’s. Both airlines are screwed, you’d be better off together.

 

Losing the possibility of a quick upgrade has freaked all out at one time or another, cut him some slack. The numbers don’t lie, consolidation has to happen. People need to stop only looking forward and take a good hard look from where we have all come to realize the LCC/ULCC model is trash. Big seats aren’t going to save us, the industry has to consolidate. There are plenty of YouTube programs out there explaining it, many with the likes of people like David Neeleman explaining it and you can’t argue with that guys success.

I need to bow out before I get more infractions, the almighty has spoken.

🥂

 

Someone doesn't know what an NDA is...

 

Just out of curiosity how many pilots does Spirit have right now? On flica for us at Frontier its 2200. I know at one point you guys had like 3500?

 

Just as important would be how many per airplane? Well active airplanes anyway? IF they decide to work out a deal how long until they change to our 14 pilots per airplane count? That could really hurt a lot of people at Spirit again.

Then there’s the 800 cadets in the Frontier pipeline making $1000 per month. If there’s a huge excess of pilots after coming together what happens to them?

This could be messier for a great deal of pilots than it would initially seem.

 

We’re down to approximately 2800

 

3,369 on the most recent seniority list posted early in January including furloughs. Of course...the attrition rate is high, so that number is decreasing by the day. Historically, we have maintained a fairly high pilot-to-A/C ratio of around 8-8.5 crews per A/C.

 

Ya that is high compared to us. Our attrition moved relatively higher this month to a rate not seen since April of last year. Pretty much double what it was each month for the last six months. No surprise really.

 

heres something I wrote up last year before we filed the BK. I changed some things now that we know some of the numbers more, updated it if you will. Of course it means absolutely nothing. Just numbers I counted and worked up on a long layover with nothing else to do. Take it for what it’s worth -

“”According to the FFTpilot page (numbers may not be entirely accurate but it’s what I have so they are what I’ll use) frontier has 157 airplanes and around 2215 pilots on property. End of 2025, frontier will have 178 planes.



Spirit has about 192 airplanes after selling the 23 CEOS that we sold last year. Spirit takes delivery of an additional 5 airplanes in 2025, so end of 2025 spirit has 197 airplanes. We have not seen a post furlough list of active pilots on property, but I’m going to guess high at around 3000 (I’m guessing more like 2900 or less but 3000 to be conservative)



Spirit runs about 16 pilots per plane, not sure how many frontier runs but with current math I’d say maybe 14 or so per plane.



Using the numbers I guess for spirits new seniority list, spirit / frontier combined has an active pilot list of about 5215 pilots.



at the end of 2025, spirit / frontier combined will have a fleet of about 375 airplanes.



375 airplanes at fifteen pilots per plane (average of F9 at 14 per plane and NK at 16 per plane is 5625 pilots. With a combined pilot list of 5215 pilots, looks like we’ll need more. Even if you calculate at 14 per plane, that’s 5250 pilots required to operate those airplanes. So when we are fully operational with all planes, we’re good.



Now, i know those numbers don’t take into consideration the grounded spirit airplanes. But it also doesn’t take into consideration any additional attrition. The airplane number that spirit is grounding is a very fluid number and hard to determine what it wlll be from day to day, but the number of grounded planes at any given time continues to reduce as time goes on.



if you take the worse case scenario numbers - frontiers 178 airplanes and if the number we were last given for spirit airframes are correct, an average of 40 ish down at one time. That’s 157 planes spirit until we get all the planes working again. that’s 335 airplanes combined spirit frontier at 14 pilots per plane is 4690 pilots. But like I say, the groundings are very fluid and is hard to predict. And could be on the downhill side of the slope before the companies are combined.



I know we have a LOT of more senior folks that will be leaving now that legacy hiring is ramping back up. It will certainly be interesting to see how things play out.





just the two cents from someone who has nothing better to do than to look at numbers and play with their iPhone calculator.””

 

how many airplanes does spirit have on order? Would like to know what the potential growth is for the next 10 years. I know both companies have extended some of their deliveries out into next decade. I think F9 put 50 into next decade.