Spirit Now Sure As It Emerges From Bankruptcy
08-28-2025 | 12:45 PM
#1512
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 53
Likes: 6
I don’t but I can make an educated guess.
-if it’s leased lease rates are between 300-400k. Size and age of lease change the variable but a safe guess is 350k a month for the 320s.
-if it’s owned then there are finance charges and depreciation. Who knows what those combined are but again a safe bet is 200-300k per month. Of course depreciation probably isnt realized until the asset leaves the property so not a direct operating cost yet but it will be eventually.
-Maintenance costs. That will vary wildly but will not be cheap and the longer the airplane is down the more expensive it will be to get it back to active status
-Insurance. No idea there but certainly not free.
-Staff. Pilots, FAs, and every other support staff that wasn’t being used to their full potential are going to be at least half a million per plane. Under utilized captains alone probably cost a half million per plane. (Pre furlough) sorry Spirit team…it is a raw deal.
So a very conservative estimate is 500k per month per plane down and probably even substantially more. The credits (cash?) would have the potential to offset that amount but I highly doubt they covered the whole cost of the airplanes being down. Especially if they are down for 400 days longer than anticipated.
-if it’s leased lease rates are between 300-400k. Size and age of lease change the variable but a safe guess is 350k a month for the 320s.
-if it’s owned then there are finance charges and depreciation. Who knows what those combined are but again a safe bet is 200-300k per month. Of course depreciation probably isnt realized until the asset leaves the property so not a direct operating cost yet but it will be eventually.
-Maintenance costs. That will vary wildly but will not be cheap and the longer the airplane is down the more expensive it will be to get it back to active status
-Insurance. No idea there but certainly not free.
-Staff. Pilots, FAs, and every other support staff that wasn’t being used to their full potential are going to be at least half a million per plane. Under utilized captains alone probably cost a half million per plane. (Pre furlough) sorry Spirit team…it is a raw deal.
So a very conservative estimate is 500k per month per plane down and probably even substantially more. The credits (cash?) would have the potential to offset that amount but I highly doubt they covered the whole cost of the airplanes being down. Especially if they are down for 400 days longer than anticipated.
Spirit loses $500K/month operating each airplane. Maybe with the PW planes back it'll just amount to even more loses. Maybe Spirit right sized the crews/operation to not really "lose" out much beyond the fixed lease cost and they'd lose even more if the PW planes are flying.
How do you know if the ongoing maintainence cost of operating thr plane is more than getting the plane back online? Especially if it's on PW to make sure the engines are ready to return to service.
Insurance? If I'm not using my boat for long periods I get a different rate than if I'm using it regularly. Probably the same.
You don't know jack and I don't know jack. Let's just leave it at that.
08-28-2025 | 01:29 PM
#1513
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,114
Likes: 291
Sue them for what? When you buy a fleet of cars for your business and there's a recall that takes it out of service. The manufacturer has an obligation to fix the product, they're not liable for loss of use, unless specifically stated in the purchase contract. That insurance is typically an additional option either offered by the manufacturer or 3rd party.
I guess you can try and see if there's negligence or willfully misrepresenting a known faulty product. Or is 400 days turnaround reasonable.
Obviously NK management and their lawyers thought whatever it is they're got from this is fair or it's all they're likely to get considering the risk/reward of litigation.
I guess you can try and see if there's negligence or willfully misrepresenting a known faulty product. Or is 400 days turnaround reasonable.
Obviously NK management and their lawyers thought whatever it is they're got from this is fair or it's all they're likely to get considering the risk/reward of litigation.
08-28-2025 | 01:59 PM
#1514
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 111
Reads like you're making complete assumptions on everything just like I am.
Spirit loses $500K/month operating each airplane. Maybe with the PW planes back it'll just amount to even more loses. Maybe Spirit right sized the crews/operation to not really "lose" out much beyond the fixed lease cost and they'd lose even more if the PW planes are flying.
How do you know if the ongoing maintainence cost of operating thr plane is more than getting the plane back online? Especially if it's on PW to make sure the engines are ready to return to service.
Insurance? If I'm not using my boat for long periods I get a different rate than if I'm using it regularly. Probably the same.
You don't know jack and I don't know jack. Let's just leave it at that.
Spirit loses $500K/month operating each airplane. Maybe with the PW planes back it'll just amount to even more loses. Maybe Spirit right sized the crews/operation to not really "lose" out much beyond the fixed lease cost and they'd lose even more if the PW planes are flying.
How do you know if the ongoing maintainence cost of operating thr plane is more than getting the plane back online? Especially if it's on PW to make sure the engines are ready to return to service.
Insurance? If I'm not using my boat for long periods I get a different rate than if I'm using it regularly. Probably the same.
You don't know jack and I don't know jack. Let's just leave it at that.
The lease rates have been confirmed via court cases (Frontier vs ACKM) and podcasts with the world’s leading leasing company this year on Airlines Confidential (forget the episode but Angus was the guest speaker). The insurance/maintenance problem was discussed by an Insurance broker on 121.5 podcast from March. The personnel costs have been easy to read that Spirit was way overstaffed (furlough) and easy to calculate since pilot pay is public. The reason it appears Spirit is losing 500k per month per airplane is because they are losing a ton per month on airplanes that aren’t flying through various drains. They are drags that mean the airplanes flying need to make even more revenue to make up the difference. Unfortunately the yields haven’t allowed that to happen. P&W wasn’t the beginning of the problems but it sure didn’t help.
I am Jack.
08-28-2025 | 02:44 PM
#1516
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 156
Likes: 70
You generally get a free loaner to use while your car is down waiting on parts to fix its recall. If not, the cost of the loan per month would be credited towards you. You are not expected to own a new vehicle, while making payments, while it's waiting on recall parts in a dealers lot.
08-28-2025 | 03:10 PM
#1517
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 482
Likes: 25
08-28-2025 | 04:35 PM
#1518
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 14
Likes: 4
F9 Chairman Said to Meet With NK Execs
From Bloomberg:
Spirit Aviation Holdings Inc. has engaged rival Frontier Group Holdings Inc. in high-level talks about the carrier’s ongoing efforts to chart a path forward less than six months after emerging from bankruptcy.
Spirit Chairman Robert Milton sat down early this week with Bill Franke, the Frontier chair, near Spirit’s headquarters in Dania Beach, Florida, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Spirit’s chief executive officer, Dave Davis, was also at the meeting, which was initiated by Milton, the person said. Spirit Aviation is the parent of Spirit Airlines.
The Florida talks focused on Spirit’s efforts to rebuild and the broader state of the US airline industry, and there was no discussion around an acquisition, said the person, who asked not to be named because the meeting was private.
A Spirit representative didn’t respond to requests for comment. Franke declined to comment through his Indigo Partners private equity firm.
Full article:https://www.removepaywall.com/search...oogle_vignette
Spirit Aviation Holdings Inc. has engaged rival Frontier Group Holdings Inc. in high-level talks about the carrier’s ongoing efforts to chart a path forward less than six months after emerging from bankruptcy.
Spirit Chairman Robert Milton sat down early this week with Bill Franke, the Frontier chair, near Spirit’s headquarters in Dania Beach, Florida, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Spirit’s chief executive officer, Dave Davis, was also at the meeting, which was initiated by Milton, the person said. Spirit Aviation is the parent of Spirit Airlines.
The Florida talks focused on Spirit’s efforts to rebuild and the broader state of the US airline industry, and there was no discussion around an acquisition, said the person, who asked not to be named because the meeting was private.
A Spirit representative didn’t respond to requests for comment. Franke declined to comment through his Indigo Partners private equity firm.
Full article:https://www.removepaywall.com/search...oogle_vignette
08-28-2025 | 05:09 PM
#1519
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,571
Likes: 281
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
08-28-2025 | 05:34 PM
#1520
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
How about SWA whose been waiting on an uncertified “new” version of that POS for 5+ years now?
Difference is the P&W failings weren’t an Airbus problem, they’re a Pratt problem. You had other engine options.
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