Spirit Now Sure As It Emerges From Bankruptcy
07-21-2025 | 11:10 AM
#612
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Spirit, Frontier, and all other ULCCs were born based on using predatory pricing against the big 3. And they were extremely successful.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
07-21-2025 | 11:18 AM
#613
Banned
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 88
Likes: 3
Only way to fix it is to leave. If enough leave, the rates will come up.
07-21-2025 | 11:24 AM
#614
Banned
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 88
Likes: 3
Last edited by GearedUp; 07-21-2025 at 11:59 AM.
07-21-2025 | 11:28 AM
#615
Banned
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 88
Likes: 3
Spirit, Frontier, and all other ULCCs were born based on using predatory pricing against the big 3. And they were extremely successful.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
07-21-2025 | 11:40 AM
#616
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,564
Likes: 345
United is increasing Basic Economy. From the earnings call when asked about if Basic Economy was going to expand.
"I think, ultimately, when we report more penetration of basic economy passengers in our numbers for the next 90 days this quarter. So expect a higher percentage of basic is my take."
"I think, ultimately, when we report more penetration of basic economy passengers in our numbers for the next 90 days this quarter. So expect a higher percentage of basic is my take."
07-21-2025 | 11:40 AM
#617
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 718
Likes: 9
Spirit, Frontier, and all other ULCCs were born based on using predatory pricing against the big 3. And they were extremely successful.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
To combat the ULCCs, Delta came up with Song and United launched Ted - alter ego LCCs within each airline. Both were resounding failures.
At some point in 2012, Delta launched Basic Economy to compete on a limited basis with Spirit and Frontier. It was marginally successful. Then in 2016/7, both United and American launched Basic Economy. All 3 airlines returned the favor with predatory pricing against the ULCCs.
And Spirit hasn't turned a profit since 2019. The same with Frontier, except they finally turned a small profit in 2024. That won't last.
The ULCC model is dead, killed by Basic Economy.
What the ULCCs did was cause all airlines to lose money on passenger tickets. The reason why the big 3 are able to make a profit is their credit card programs. If not for that, they'd also be losing money.
The entire industry has changed and Spirit cannot reinvent itself enough to be profitable. The big 3 will price their Basic Economy product with both seats and price points where Spirit and Frontier (and JetBlue and Southwest) die a death of 1000 cuts. Spirit and Frontier don't have lucrative enough cargo and credit card contracts to make up for the passenger losses. (I can remember working a midwinter flight LAX-LHR on the 777 where we had a mid-teens pax load. I asked how much money we were losing on the flight - we weren't; the belly was full of profitable cargo).
This is a brutal business with razor thin margins. And right now, passenger margins are negative for almost every airline including the big 3.
Can Spirit suvive? I suppose if they stop flying to major cities and go with an Allegiant, Avelo or Breeze model of servicing secondary cities. As a much, much smaller airline. If they don't run out of money first.
07-21-2025 | 11:42 AM
#618
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 718
Likes: 9
United is increasing Basic Economy. From the earnings call when asked about if Basic Economy was going to expand.
"I think, ultimately, when we report more penetration of basic economy passengers in our numbers for the next 90 days this quarter. So expect a higher percentage of basic is my take."
"I think, ultimately, when we report more penetration of basic economy passengers in our numbers for the next 90 days this quarter. So expect a higher percentage of basic is my take."
07-21-2025 | 11:47 AM
#619
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 164
From: NK CA
07-21-2025 | 11:49 AM
#620
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 164
From: NK CA
I think we hit a sore spot. Guessing you are an ULCC pilot too. I fly my A321 for Delta for $365.88 an hour as a year 5 Captain. Your year 12 Captains do it for $270. I get a very large profit sharing check on V Day every year. Your pilots don't. I work for a company that values me. Your pilots don't. I chose to leave a sh!t stain airline that didn't value me, you and many other like you chose to stay. We fly the same airways and the same aircraft to the same cities. Your pilots just do it for about half the compensation I make every day. Life is full of choices. Enjoy yours and I'll enjoy mine.
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