No no no… you’ve got it all wrong. Friendly has assured us that scale has absolutely nothing to do with any of this and that Scott Kirby is a business genius and that one day UAL will be the only airline left and all 350 million of us will soon be living in this utopia. Get excited friends.

 

And all the “we” crap makes me cringe.

 

You're not wrong at all, you just lack social calibration.

Just like a lot of other airline pilots who have no social life outside of aviation.

 

The first ch11 was to wipe the shareholders and get control of the company in return for pushing back the due dates on the bonds.

The second ch11 if it happens will be to start dealing with other real problems like planes sitting around doing nothing.

As for another airline buying spirit as a whole, sure spirit comes with a ton of debt and that may be unfavorable. However, the folks in charge are the owners of that debt and I’m sure they could be convinced to convert that debt into shares of the buying airline. If they get enough stock they could easily cash out more than a yard sale of what’s left in Florida when all the jets go back to the lessors in a ch7

 

No, he is wrong…he’s galavanting around trying to convince others that United is just giving away services as a favor for nothing in return. It’s free guys…just throw your bags on the plane and United will get them where you want them to go…grab a snack and enjoy the entertainment…all for free of course…your money is no good here

 

There are some benefits to buying whole, if you're interested in specific assets.

If the price is right, you can cherry pick what you want, and then auction off the rest yourself at your leisure. Otherwise you'd have to fight it out at auction.

Also gates and slots are typically owned/controlled by the airport authority and probably do not transfer as assets... the local authority would simply re-allocate those to maximize benefit to their local travelers and economy, whether that's a startup airline for competitive reasons, specific destinations, or even bringing in foreign airlines to enhance the tourist economy. The only way to keep gates/slots in many cases is to continue to operate per the original terms of the lease/allocation. Yes, there are a few jurisdictions where you can in fact transfer such things but those probably aren't the ones other airlines would be excited about.

What scope provisions does the NK CBA have regarding sale/transfer of aircraft (outside of BK)?

 

Yes they generally make money flying, they just also make big money with credit cards. There was a probably a quarter here and there where credit card revenue was positive and flight ops negative... maybe air travel is more seasonal than credit card use.

 

OMG I’m so glad someone else feels the same way.

It is so ick.

 

I keep hearing that United and American plan to grow their fleets by hundreds of aircraft over the next however many years. If an airline could somehow acquire 200 planes right now, how much would that cost and how much does it cost them in lost revenue (credit cards) not having those planes? I gotta believe it would be cheaper to buy Spirit even along with its debt. It comes down to what it is worth to the buyer, not necessarily just asset value minus debt.

Full disclosure…I’m an idiot

 

I think the problem is that those companies only want new planes like the NEO or Max. There’s just no interest in older, less efficient aircraft. There’s also the significant time and expense to convert those planes to match the legacy configuration. My guess is that the legacy management teams are quietly hoping that with the elimination of a low cost competitor they can raise ticket prices and further increase their revenue. They’re just sitting in the trees like a couple of vultures waiting to gain from another’s loss.