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Old 02-11-2015 | 06:46 AM
  #10511  
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From: Airbus Left
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"I haven't been looking, have reserves been flying a lot more?

Anyway, it will be a good thing if there is never any open time. Then people will realize how much hourly rate does matter when it becomes impossible to "work the system"

You guys sure it isnt seasonal?, Janurary & February are always pretty low block time aren't they? (I guess we will find out the next two months)"


Right on, Joey and Q. The company's exess flying fluctuates greatly throughout the year. Maybe some of it seasonal, some of it related to hiring/training not quite matching the new flying we are taking on.
The open time system is primarily designed as their "shock absorber" in this regards. Industry standard.
We as pilots would be smart not to rely on it to make ends meet, but unfortunately many have to (especially in early years) because our payscale is so lousy. We need to fix this, let's set the bar high in the next contract!!
Old 02-11-2015 | 08:42 AM
  #10512  
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
I don't understand, if you are seeing this. Why the F--- aren't you taking screen shots and talking to the Union. Posting on here isn't going to do ****. They need proof. If you have proof, do something for christsake

I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.

Whoa! Check out Joey getting fired up!

Keep in mind you have a guy full time in Miramar looking at this stuff. If they wanted to find it, it would be found. No screenshot necessary. This MEC seams to love ZERO open time. Whatever the company does to zero it out and keep you from a pickup is apparently ok with the MEC.

CS has two flavors of open trips, published and unpublished. Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives. Published is what we see in opentime.

Now, I'm not saying they would do anything nefarious down there at CS, but it is possible:

The Reach-Around

A good trip opens, CS parks it in unpub until they contact their buddy (payback for previous 'help', or to insure answering the phone in the future). CS processes the ADD, buddy gets the trip.

The Reserve Gambit

CS parks a high credit trip in unpub until within the 2 day window, then assigns it to a reserve.


Just a couple possible CS plays.

How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.
Old 02-11-2015 | 08:45 AM
  #10513  
Jett i son's Avatar
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Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
I don't understand, if you are seeing this. Why the F--- aren't you taking screen shots and talking to the Union. Posting on here isn't going to do ****. They need proof. If you have proof, do something for christsake

I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
Working on it, Joey.
We need more pilots to make a stronger case.
That is why I am asking pilots to call/email the scheduling committee!

Anyone please pm me for more info.
Old 02-11-2015 | 08:52 AM
  #10514  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
CS has two flavors of open trips, published and unpublished. Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives. Published is what we see in opentime.

Now, I'm not saying they would do anything nefarious down there at CS, but it is possible:

The Reach-Around

A good trip opens, CS parks it in unpub until they contact their buddy (payback for previous 'help', or to insure answering the phone in the future). CS processes the ADD, buddy gets the trip.

The Reserve Gambit

CS parks a high credit trip in unpub until within the 2 day window, then assigns it to a reserve.


Just a couple possible CS plays.

How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.
Fantastic post!
Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives
Is this allowed by the contract?
That is exactly what is happening.
They are withholding prime open time trips to make side deals, or assign to reserves.

I urge you all to take notes.
Making side deals undermines the contract and hurts all of us.
Old 02-11-2015 | 08:57 AM
  #10515  
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Originally Posted by Jett i son
Fantastic post!
Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives
Is this allowed by the contract?
That is exactly what is happening.
They are withholding prime open time trips to make side deals, or assign to reserves.

I urge you all to take notes.
Making side deals undermines the contract and hurts all of us.

5% is allowed, but when and how it is measured may be debatable. The fact it is under "Bid packet prep" makes me think nothing should go into unpublished after the lines are built, but that's just me.
Old 02-11-2015 | 09:02 AM
  #10516  
Jett i son's Avatar
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Great info Plane Ramrod:

My understanding is that the 5% is for training and relief line purposes.
I agree with you that nothing should be unpublished, unless used for OE. I will research that.
Old 02-11-2015 | 09:43 AM
  #10517  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
5% is allowed, but when and how it is measured may be debatable. The fact it is under "Bid packet prep" makes me think nothing should go into unpublished after the lines are built, but that's just me.
Think that is correct. Page 25-2:
"Prior to the construction of bid lines, the Company may select and withhold up to 5 percent of the total scheduled flight time in each position. In addition, with MEC notification, the Company may withhold an additional 3 percent for the purposes of building OE training lines."

The other one, Page 25-11:
"Scheduling shall place all open trip pairings into the Electronic Shift Trade Daily Open Time Pot as soon as known by Scheduling."

No doubt, we need more transparency in this process.
Old 02-11-2015 | 10:03 AM
  #10518  
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From: A-320
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Originally Posted by Jett i son
Working on it, Joey.
We need more pilots to make a stronger case.
That is why I am asking pilots to call/email the scheduling committee!

Anyone please pm me for more info.
Good man! My aggression wasn't towards you btw!, just in general
Old 02-11-2015 | 11:54 AM
  #10519  
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No worries Joey.
This kind of aggression is music to my ears.
Being passive or complacent, only allows CS to intimidate our group and break the contract.
You do not know how many times I have heard:
"I am going to grieve it, when I complete probation", only to forgive and forget, when that time comes...
Old 02-11-2015 | 01:43 PM
  #10520  
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From: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
Just a couple possible CS plays.

How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.

Exactly. Flica won't approve a trip within 48 hours of show time, so if it comes and goes in a few minutes (inside that window), they moved it. You have to call CS and get it done manually. The last time I called on one, I was #17 in the queue. Theres no way someone could have called that fast and got it.
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