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Old 02-17-2018, 03:49 PM   #21  
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Default You said it best.

awesome. I wish my LCA explained it that way.

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Quick story on why “kick” is a bad word I don’t use.

Windy day going into Yakima in an empty C-5 which is a kite. 40* crosswind nearing the limits for conditions, IIRC about 28 knots of left crosswind component, 32.5* was the charted limit. Newish pilot flying, we had a discussion on crosswind techniques. He was ready and geared up. Nicely flown approach off the VOR, good weather except for winds. I’m in the right seat, watching, hands off the controls, feet resting on the pedals. He’s nicely stable and good air speed control going thru 50’, I call “20”, and my right pedal disappears under my foot. Oh boy! Nose swings thru the centerline, I grab my set of throttles and, say, “MY AIRPLANE”. As the thrust kicked in we were at the right hand edge of the runway and I remembering wondering if we’d touch. Off we went, thanks to GE and a light airplane.

Point being, just squeeze enough rudder to align the fuselage with the runway, think upwind aileron to hold the wings level, which will probably have set 2*-3* of bank into the wind. It’s poetry, not prose.

GF
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:36 PM   #22  
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Default E145 lands in a crab, slight down wing .

This one lands crabbed, then straightens nose.
Is this correct technique for E145? Not sure of the wind speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXHDSsSYSdU
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:54 PM   #23  
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This one lands crabbed, then straightens nose.
Is this correct technique for E145? Not sure of the wind speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXHDSsSYSdU
If you look closely, the PF is decrabbing, as it touches down, wings level, in a diminishing crab angle. Could have decrabbed a bit more, but hard to say, not knowing the plane. Smoke comes off the mains nearly simultaneously, firm touch without the plane bouncing or rolling because of the decrabbing of the gear. Probably 20 knots, perhaps 25.

Can’t say what the Embraer manual says on crosswind techniques, but it looks reasonable.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:53 AM   #24  
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Default CRJ-200 and crossiwnds.

Here is a 9000 hour CRJ-200 pilot talking about the high roll rate.
Probably something they should address in training?

Incident: Wisconsin CRJ2 at Manchester on Mar 18th 2015, wing tip strike on landing


CRJ200 no fan of crosswinds
By nugpot on Thursday, Apr 2nd 2015 12:53Z

I have about 9000 hours on those wonderful little jets. Crosswinds are a challenge due to a very strong yaw/roll couple (when kicking straight after crabbing in) plus a high roll-rate for a passenger aircraft due to the spoileron/aileron combination on a short wing. In gusty conditions, you can quickly overcorrect into a tip strike.



Incident: Wisconsin CRJ2 at Manchester on Mar 18th 2015, wing tip strike on landing
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:10 PM   #25  
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Any swept wing plane will have yaw-roll coupling, it’s a feature. The advancing wing is becoming “less swept” while the retreating wing is becoming “more swept”. Also, a crosswind becomes more normal to the wing on the upwind side and less on the downwind side. Picture yourself hovering over the plane and imagine what a left cross looks like compared to a direct headwind. The upwind wing has a flow nearly perpendicular to the leading edge while the downwind has the wind flowing nearly parallel to the leading edge. These two factors contribute to the yaw-roll coupling, but they are generic to all swept wing designs.

Can’t say about roll rate other than a deft touch and stay in sync with what the gust is doing. I tend to think many pilots are too aggressive in countering every gust and “row” at the ailerons. Fewer, but positive, roll inputs and give the plane time to react. One can throw loads of inputs, reverse them quickly and the plane can’t react that fast. I had an IP in -38s, LtCol Bucholz, he could throw the stick all around the cockpit so fast the plane barely moved—in formation, it did to show positive timely inputs were correct, not a flurry of pokes.

GF
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:47 PM   #26  
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Default Good stuff.

Thanks, GF. Good stuff.
I think they should do more crosswinds in the sim; gusts, if the sim is capable.


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Any swept wing plane will have yaw-roll coupling, it’s a feature. The advancing wing is becoming “less swept” while the retreating wing is becoming “more swept”. Also, a crosswind becomes more normal to the wing on the upwind side and less on the downwind side. Picture yourself hovering over the plane and imagine what a left cross looks like compared to a direct headwind. The upwind wing has a flow nearly perpendicular to the leading edge while the downwind has the wind flowing nearly parallel to the leading edge. These two factors contribute to the yaw-roll coupling, but they are generic to all swept wing designs.

Can’t say about roll rate other than a deft touch and stay in sync with what the gust is doing. I tend to think many pilots are too aggressive in countering every gust and “row” at the ailerons. Fewer, but positive, roll inputs and give the plane time to react. One can throw loads of inputs, reverse them quickly and the plane can’t react that fast. I had an IP in -38s, LtCol Bucholz, he could throw the stick all around the cockpit so fast the plane barely moved—in formation, it did to show positive timely inputs were correct, not a flurry of pokes.

GF
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:00 PM   #27  
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Thanks, GF. Good stuff.
I think they should do more crosswinds in the sim; gusts, if the sim is capable.
pp

Because the Global had a series of wingtip strikes, it was a sim “emphasis item”. It’s tricky and as you exceed 20 knots of cross; you sometimes have to a combination of crabbed (decrab to around 5* crab angle) and wing low within 3*-5* of bank and opposite rudder.

PM an email and I’ll send a Flight Safety Foundation article on the subject.

GF
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:26 AM   #28  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin145 View Post
Here is a 9000 hour CRJ-200 pilot talking about the high roll rate.
Probably something they should address in training?

Incident: Wisconsin CRJ2 at Manchester on Mar 18th 2015, wing tip strike on landing


CRJ200 no fan of crosswinds
By nugpot on Thursday, Apr 2nd 2015 12:53Z

I have about 9000 hours on those wonderful little jets. Crosswinds are a challenge due to a very strong yaw/roll couple (when kicking straight after crabbing in) plus a high roll-rate for a passenger aircraft due to the spoileron/aileron combination on a short wing. In gusty conditions, you can quickly overcorrect into a tip strike.



Incident: Wisconsin CRJ2 at Manchester on Mar 18th 2015, wing tip strike on landing
When we say "kick" it out, we don't really mean kick. Smooth inputs and fly the wing while you're doing it.

If you get a sudden gust in the flare you may need a sudden roll input, but a small input should do it... or buy you time for deeper correction.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:42 AM   #29  
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Funny thing about Global strikes, out of 13 or 14, only two involved crosswinds near the demonstrated crosswind component of 29 knots. Several involved winds of less than 10 knots. The “investigations” revealed very low speed at touchdown, hence high pitch angles (>10*, IIRC) and a little bit of ham-fisted roll inputs and/or high sink rate. With 35* of sweep, the tips get close to the pavement at high pitch angles.

GF
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:24 PM   #30  
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Default Great point about high pitch /wing clearance

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Funny thing about Global strikes, out of 13 or 14, only two involved crosswinds near the demonstrated crosswind component of 29 knots. Several involved winds of less than 10 knots. The “investigations” revealed very low speed at touchdown, hence high pitch angles (>10*, IIRC) and a little bit of ham-fisted roll inputs and/or high sink rate. With 35* of sweep, the tips get close to the pavement at high pitch angles.

GF
This shows G V as example. at 5' pitch, wing tip clearance goes from 60 to 43 inches clearance.
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File Type: jpg gv_wingtip_clearance_deck_angle.jpg (17.4 KB, 157 views)
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