Trans States CQFO
02-01-2015, 11:13 AM
#51
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by Coneydog
How are new guys being duped? By offering them an opportunity to make more money and pad their resume (in an effort to get hired with a major) ? American Airlines played you guys. I am truly sorry for that. We did not vote in a concessionary contract. United took those planes from Xpress Jet...not us. Is it Trans States fault that they can fly for a profit while maintaining a happy pilot group with a better than average contract? Again, no concessions. Upgrade times are quick. Pilots are happy here. Most people are coming here to have an opportunity they otherwise wouldn't have had at their previous airline. This is what your mad about? What is it that you are 'crusading' for? You sound like a clown
02-01-2015, 07:28 PM
#52
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 504
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
I've said it several times: I'm bit mad about anything. You are making statements about fast upgrades that you "believe" are going to continue. The simple truth is that they may continue IF you get enough FOs to fill your coffers. Your jet contracts are relatively short and your future after that very uncertain. YOU may be finally happy but I believe the "dupe" is on a new hire FO. Just my belief. In 20+ years, I've seen it too many times.
02-01-2015, 07:44 PM
#53
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by Pilottim79
Uncertain future? The contracts are 5 years. Is TSA future more uncertain than Envoy, XJT, Endeavor, Mesa, Go Jet, Silver, Commute Air? I would say TSA has a more secure future than any of those.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
02-02-2015, 03:06 AM
#54
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Says who? You? Put it in writing. All of that is only IF you can actually attract regular FOs, which you so far have not been able to do in any certain numbers. TSA management knew this from the start. Why do you think they came out of the gate with a "CQFO" program? The whole thing will fail if you don't get normal FOs though. How could TSA actually survive if they were paying the majority of their FOs substantially more than Envoy, the company they are supposed to be undercutting?
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Oooo!! I want to play. Okay, here goes: Envoy will cease to exist in 8 months. See? I can make unfounded conclusions based on a qualitative "analysis" of an incomplete data set and completely ignore any kind of context.
Listen old man, I know when you went to college, they didn't use calculating machines, but that doesn't give you an excuse to make outlandish statements.
Those numbers tell no story at all. In the 6 months prior to the growth announcement, TSA managed to hire over 60 FOs. While not a lot of pilots at a place like ExpressJet, this resulted in a nearly 20 growth in the pilot group; all this without any promise of growth and an upgrade that had been hovering around 1-2 years. Isn't it possible that the lack of FOs in classes is because recruiting is focusing on CQFOs? No, that couldn't be it. The company will need 100 more Captains, in less than a year, than there are pilots on the current seniority list. It also couldn't be because, as of the announcement, TSA was very overstaffed on FOs. Nope, that couldn't be it either. Confirmation bias is a strong thing. Most ignorant people are unaware of its affects on opinions.
Listen old man, I know when you went to college, they didn't use calculating machines, but that doesn't give you an excuse to make outlandish statements.
Those numbers tell no story at all. In the 6 months prior to the growth announcement, TSA managed to hire over 60 FOs. While not a lot of pilots at a place like ExpressJet, this resulted in a nearly 20 growth in the pilot group; all this without any promise of growth and an upgrade that had been hovering around 1-2 years. Isn't it possible that the lack of FOs in classes is because recruiting is focusing on CQFOs? No, that couldn't be it. The company will need 100 more Captains, in less than a year, than there are pilots on the current seniority list. It also couldn't be because, as of the announcement, TSA was very overstaffed on FOs. Nope, that couldn't be it either. Confirmation bias is a strong thing. Most ignorant people are unaware of its affects on opinions.
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Actually that is true: I learned weight and balance with a slide rule. Learned to navigate without a magenta line present in the aircraft, and how to calculate a precise descent without the use of an FMS; the old man could out fly one of you self entitled spoiled rotten kiddos any day
As far as the rest of your statement, perhaps 5 classes is not enough of a "data set", I could agree with that. I most likely have inserted a little "old man" 20+ years experience watching this stuff as well.
So, how about a bet? I'll bet $1000 that this little experiment fails for most.
As far as the rest of your statement, perhaps 5 classes is not enough of a "data set", I could agree with that. I most likely have inserted a little "old man" 20+ years experience watching this stuff as well.
So, how about a bet? I'll bet $1000 that this little experiment fails for most.
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
You would say TSA, with a 5 year contract for jets slated for retirement in 5 years, is more secure than say, Envoy, who is receiving brand new 76 seat jets and has a solid 10 year contract to back it? Ohhhhhhkayyyy. I am flying those old 145s you guys are about to get. I'd be amazed if they all last 5 years; They are falling apart just like the ATRs before we dumped them.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.
02-02-2015, 04:31 AM
#56
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by MavAv8r
The company doesn't blindly accept, and/or bid on something they know that they won't be able to staff. Great business model, and if you haven't paid attention to the industry in the last 10-15 years, TSA won't do something they can't make money. Gaining flying, and then losing it all, due to staffing, makes it tough to make money.
^This. They have simply altered their recruiting tactics for now. The primary focus is getting Captains on property for the initial growth spurt, because we will already have FO's to handle the initial growth. If we get short on FO's they can use the CQFO's to handle it. It's simply being smart with their hiring. Like Breezy said, the company hired 10 ish a month for over a year with no promise of growth, no upgrades, and no attrition. Now you are saying that since we are tripling in size to stay away? Go take your meds old man.
Bring.It.On... I've flown with enough old codgers like yourself that still think they are Chuck Yeager, and just getting it on the ground is a tough task.
You call that a solid 10 year contract? You do realize it is an absolute sh!t sandwich, and worse than the contract TSA pilots currently work under right? You do realize Endeavor has to stay around to get that bonus right? As for Mesa… you've missed the fast upgrade. So go there and upgrade in 2-2.5 years while your buddy came here and upgrades the day he hits 3000 TT. Don't forget that if we get short, we can and WE WILL drop the TT requirements if that is what is required to staff it. In which case you upgrade in 1-1.5 years tops.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.
^This. They have simply altered their recruiting tactics for now. The primary focus is getting Captains on property for the initial growth spurt, because we will already have FO's to handle the initial growth. If we get short on FO's they can use the CQFO's to handle it. It's simply being smart with their hiring. Like Breezy said, the company hired 10 ish a month for over a year with no promise of growth, no upgrades, and no attrition. Now you are saying that since we are tripling in size to stay away? Go take your meds old man.
Bring.It.On... I've flown with enough old codgers like yourself that still think they are Chuck Yeager, and just getting it on the ground is a tough task.
You call that a solid 10 year contract? You do realize it is an absolute sh!t sandwich, and worse than the contract TSA pilots currently work under right? You do realize Endeavor has to stay around to get that bonus right? As for Mesa… you've missed the fast upgrade. So go there and upgrade in 2-2.5 years while your buddy came here and upgrades the day he hits 3000 TT. Don't forget that if we get short, we can and WE WILL drop the TT requirements if that is what is required to staff it. In which case you upgrade in 1-1.5 years tops.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.
I agree TSA wouldn't do this if they didn't think they could. Seeing as you speak of historics - how has TSA "historically" treated their pilots? Like crap? Hired in the spring furloughed in the fall over and over? The CQFO program is how they will staff but it will require CQFOs that don't actually make it to the left seat(my opinion). You even basically said this yourself above!
(Insert baseless assumptive potshot here about how this old codger has "saved" plenty of young bucks like you that think they can fly)
Envoy has a 10 year contract with brand new aircraft and an automatic flow to AA. You have a 5 year contract and are receiving old airplanes that only have 5 years of useful life left out of them. You are saying your contract is better?
Compass, like you has not taken any contract alterations to receive these aircraft. However, Compass has not put a program in place that is designed to pilfer pilots from fellow regionals. If they get 121 pilots, great, but they are not trying to directly suck them away with a "CQFO" program.
All that being said, I don't really have anything against you guys and I am not upset at anything; it doesn't affect me personally in any way shape or form. Simply put, it is my opinion that this experiment will fail. You are only being given these airplanes because Envoy cannot staff them. If you pull it off great, but my advice to the average 1500 CFI is that there are much better bets out there right now.
02-02-2015, 09:19 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 504
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
You would say TSA, with a 5 year contract for jets slated for retirement in 5 years, is more secure than say, Envoy, who is receiving brand new 76 seat jets and has a solid 10 year contract to back it? Ohhhhhhkayyyy. I am flying those old 145s you guys are about to get. I'd be amazed if they all last 5 years; They are falling apart just like the ATRs before we dumped them.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
And yes, I would rather be at TSA than any of those you mentioned. It doesn't matter what airplanes you have if you have the worst contract and can't staff them, Mesa (see Republic). If you honestly think the new hire FOs will see that 80K you are a perfect Envoy employee. You think they will probably get flow through too!! haha.
02-02-2015, 09:54 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by MavAv8r
The company doesn't blindly accept, and/or bid on something they know that they won't be able to staff. Great business model, and if you haven't paid attention to the industry in the last 10-15 years, TSA won't do something they can't make money. Gaining flying, and then losing it all, due to staffing, makes it tough to make money.
^This. They have simply altered their recruiting tactics for now. The primary focus is getting Captains on property for the initial growth spurt, because we will already have FO's to handle the initial growth. If we get short on FO's they can use the CQFO's to handle it. It's simply being smart with their hiring. Like Breezy said, the company hired 10 ish a month for over a year with no promise of growth, no upgrades, and no attrition. Now you are saying that since we are tripling in size to stay away? Go take your meds old man.
Bring.It.On... I've flown with enough old codgers like yourself that still think they are Chuck Yeager, and just getting it on the ground is a tough task.
You call that a solid 10 year contract? You do realize it is an absolute sh!t sandwich, and worse than the contract TSA pilots currently work under right? You do realize Endeavor has to stay around to get that bonus right? As for Mesa… you've missed the fast upgrade. So go there and upgrade in 2-2.5 years while your buddy came here and upgrades the day he hits 3000 TT. Don't forget that if we get short, we can and WE WILL drop the TT requirements if that is what is required to staff it. In which case you upgrade in 1-1.5 years tops.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.
^This. They have simply altered their recruiting tactics for now. The primary focus is getting Captains on property for the initial growth spurt, because we will already have FO's to handle the initial growth. If we get short on FO's they can use the CQFO's to handle it. It's simply being smart with their hiring. Like Breezy said, the company hired 10 ish a month for over a year with no promise of growth, no upgrades, and no attrition. Now you are saying that since we are tripling in size to stay away? Go take your meds old man.
Bring.It.On... I've flown with enough old codgers like yourself that still think they are Chuck Yeager, and just getting it on the ground is a tough task.
You call that a solid 10 year contract? You do realize it is an absolute sh!t sandwich, and worse than the contract TSA pilots currently work under right? You do realize Endeavor has to stay around to get that bonus right? As for Mesa… you've missed the fast upgrade. So go there and upgrade in 2-2.5 years while your buddy came here and upgrades the day he hits 3000 TT. Don't forget that if we get short, we can and WE WILL drop the TT requirements if that is what is required to staff it. In which case you upgrade in 1-1.5 years tops.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.
Originally Posted by Pilottim79
You are such a troll. If you think the XRs are getting mothballed in 5 years you are nuts. Just cause a contract expires in no way equals a plane going away.
And yes, I would rather be at TSA than any of those you mentioned. It doesn't matter what airplanes you have if you have the worst contract and can't staff them, Mesa (see Republic). If you honestly think the new hire FOs will see that 80K you are a perfect Envoy employee. You think they will probably get flow through too!! haha.
And yes, I would rather be at TSA than any of those you mentioned. It doesn't matter what airplanes you have if you have the worst contract and can't staff them, Mesa (see Republic). If you honestly think the new hire FOs will see that 80K you are a perfect Envoy employee. You think they will probably get flow through too!! haha.
The rest of your sputter is just illogical drivel from a kid.
02-02-2015, 10:12 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
I've said it several times: I'm bit mad about anything. You are making statements about fast upgrades that you "believe" are going to continue. The simple truth is that they may continue IF you get enough FOs to fill your coffers. Your jet contracts are relatively short and your future after that very uncertain. YOU may be finally happy but I believe the "dupe" is on a new hire FO. Just my belief. In 20+ years, I've seen it too many times.
02-02-2015, 10:37 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by FlyingKat
Well if you have really been around for 20 years, then you know anything more than 5 years out in this industry is a crapshoot which is why I get such a laugh at you bragging about your long term contracts. As soon as AA finds somebody cheaper they will find a way to get around it. So quit wasting your time on TSA we'll be just fine.
As far as your business statements, you'll need to return to college. See kiddo, 76 seat jets make money even when oil is above $80 barrel. Why would AA want to find someone to do it cheaper? It doesn't really matter if that just means more profit. Dougie P said very clearly at a company town hall that keeping flying with a wholly owned makes the company much more money, as long as the costs are somewhat aligned.
Don't act like you got anytbing more than Xjet and Envoy leftovers. And for gods sake, and your souls sake, stop trying to dupe poor unsuspecting cfis!!
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