Vote YES to TA for DAL Pilots
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
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Vote YES to TA for DAL Pilots
I just wanted to create an alter ego thread that allows guys to post the pros as opposed to the negatives of voting YES vs. NO. I personally voted YES and cannot come up with a logical, lucid explanation as to why anyone thinks voting NO gets us any real gains.
08-05-2008, 12:07 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Nothing worth obtaining is ever easy (or without some degree of uncertainty).
Does anyone think management will ever willingly give us what we're worth? Either now or in 4+ years? Of course they won't. Management will never be as amicable as the DAL pilot group has been.
Do you not think we'll have to take some risk along the way if we expect to even partially restore what used to be a lucrative career?
We won't get anything back until we're willing to risk something.
Less than cost-of-living increases and a negligible DC plan increase, added to a concessionary contract, is not going to cut it.
I'm vulnerable to furloughs. I'll risk it by voting "no" and rolling the dice. I won't be intimidated by scare tactics, emotional manipulation, or any other panic-mongering arguments.
Does anyone think management will ever willingly give us what we're worth? Either now or in 4+ years? Of course they won't. Management will never be as amicable as the DAL pilot group has been.
Do you not think we'll have to take some risk along the way if we expect to even partially restore what used to be a lucrative career?
We won't get anything back until we're willing to risk something.
Less than cost-of-living increases and a negligible DC plan increase, added to a concessionary contract, is not going to cut it.
I'm vulnerable to furloughs. I'll risk it by voting "no" and rolling the dice. I won't be intimidated by scare tactics, emotional manipulation, or any other panic-mongering arguments.
08-05-2008, 12:08 PM
#5
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
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The point that I think a few of us are trying to make is now out of any other time is where the down side is huge for the Delta Pilots. The trick is to know when to fight that fight, and now is not the time. That is unless you will take great pleasure in getting whipsawed.
08-05-2008, 12:13 PM
#6
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Position: 757/767 FO
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if not now...when???
in 4, 5, or 6 years? we all know the next contract will probably take years to negotiate. and then management will manipulate us with the next "crisis."
There will never be a "good" time to negotiate a contract unless it's NOW.
in 4, 5, or 6 years? we all know the next contract will probably take years to negotiate. and then management will manipulate us with the next "crisis."
There will never be a "good" time to negotiate a contract unless it's NOW.
08-05-2008, 12:24 PM
#7
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
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Why are some of the DAL peeps so quick to try and undermine their Union reps who after having ALL the FACTS voted Unanimously to ratify this? Everyone was behind them to begin with and now they argue their position? What if this is the best we can do right now and it brings our groups together? Are some willing to possibly screw up the next 20 years of negotiating leverage by dividing the pilot groups now over the pipe dream of a couple extra bucks and hour now?
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
08-05-2008, 12:29 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Why are some of the DAL peeps so quick to try and undermine their Union reps who after having ALL the FACTS voted Unanimously to ratify this? Everyone was behind them to begin with and now they argue their position? What if this is the best we can do right now and it brings our groups together? Are some willing to possibly screw up the next 20 years of negotiating leverage by dividing the pilot groups now over the pipe dream of a couple extra bucks and hour now?
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
This JPWA was negotiated in a panic with oil at $140 and climbing.
It's now at $120 and dropping.
Sometimes the long view is the wrong view. Who really thinks management will suddenly become generous for the next contract? We will never, ever get the gains we want unless we risk something.
The MECs bought into this JPWA and are locked in. Do you honestly think that if it was being negotiated today, that the MECs would settle for the current terms? How can one argue that point?
less than cost-of-living for the next 4 or 5+ years on a concessionary contract is an insult and is completely insufficient.
08-05-2008, 12:29 PM
#9
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Yes, it is the big picture.
Spiff. I would like more and yes, I agree that management will drag their feet next time, but I prefer not to be whipsawed and I prefer to be fighting with management for goodies, not with the NWA pilots for the goodies that management will no doubt be hanging in front of both groups. Why can't you see this scenario happening? If you can doesn't that scare you more than a OK deal now?
Spiff. I would like more and yes, I agree that management will drag their feet next time, but I prefer not to be whipsawed and I prefer to be fighting with management for goodies, not with the NWA pilots for the goodies that management will no doubt be hanging in front of both groups. Why can't you see this scenario happening? If you can doesn't that scare you more than a OK deal now?
08-05-2008, 12:29 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Why are some of the DAL peeps so quick to try and undermine their Union reps who after having ALL the FACTS voted Unanimously to ratify this? Everyone was behind them to begin with and now they argue their position? What if this is the best we can do right now and it brings our groups together? Are some willing to possibly screw up the next 20 years of negotiating leverage by dividing the pilot groups now over the pipe dream of a couple extra bucks and hour now?
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
Thing long term and look at the Big picture
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