I didnt argue the point of LOA 19 i argued the point that NWA was left out at the time. Please feel free to post the facts, mmmkkyyy

 

Spliff,

During furlough I was privy to have a management job away from Delta that allowed me to be in a boardroom. Time and again I was privy to information that considered "insider" information. Our MEC has that information as well and it can't be disseminated to the rank and file without landing them in jail. The best they can do is come forward with a TA that takes in those facts. You don't know the business plan. I don't either in this case. But I can tell you emphatically, that as a former Director, the MEC is privy to this, has a member on the board who is privy to this and we need to understand that just because oil is down to $120/barrel its still $30/barrel higher than when the merger was first announced. Oil at this level still means a loss to the company. ACL65 is right, this merger is going to cost billions. A new terminal at JFK is going to cost billions. New a/c are going to cost billions. And a new contract is going to do the same. I would rather negotiate in four years when many of these costs have been absorbed and still be making the highest wages of any legacy carrier than hamstring the company and put all of us at risk. To me, that's the risk that is unacceptable.

 

This is the essence of why I voted yes. We need to make sure that we keep ourselves relevant in the process. Being a bunch of pilots who attempted to play in the big game only to foul out and be schooled on what the rules really are, is where we will be if we vote no.
Go ahead do not really read all of the documents, do not see the loop holes in LOA 19, that one way or another are a non issue when we are all on the same side of the table. Go make this about it not being a good enough contract for the DAL pilots. Do not listen to what the MEC has been stating though the LEC reps in the lounges. This is not section 6, this is not the time to break the bank, this is not the time to grow a pair. This is the time to make sure that we are not sitting in the middle of a USAir fiasco. The JPWA and TFA make this deal dooable with loosing nothing and getting an SLI that if taken to arbitration will be as fair as it can be.
I mean really SPIF and Express Pilot, what did you guys expect from a JPWA. For us to right ever wrong that has been done to both groups for the last quarter century. Look at AMR they are trying for what you are wanting. Look how far it is getting them. You can burn the place down, but understand that you too will get burnt in the process.

 

It doesn't matter who was or was not on the board.

This contract was negotiated in a PANIC with oil going through the roof.

That was the MEC's main sell at the time-- OHMYGODOILISGOINGTOKILLUSYOUHAVETOVOTEYES!!!!!

Times have changed. So should this contract--before we get locked into a POS for the next 4+ years.

You (or the MEC) might have the best insider information in the world. Convincing the pilot group that the MEC are acting in the pilots' best interests with that information, given various past transgressions and the current perception that the MEC and management are in bed together, is the hard part.

 

Oil was just below the $120 mark when the contract was negotiated. Yes it was on the rise but most were expecting $130 oil max not the $148+ it went too. Oil will rise again in the near future just wait..... I hope we are buying hedges in todays market!

 

On a side note, if I was having to negotiate against you I would take your fear and use it to my advantage. A lack of grasp of the facts mean I could drag out negotiations with you for an unlimited amount of time because I could use economic swings to make you change your position. Sometimes might is knowing when to fight the battles you will win, not just fighting for fighting's sake.

 

If you have read all of the documents and truly understood them, you would realize how stupid your comment is Spiff. The deal has been being worked on for many moons. There is a lot that has been taken in to account and there is no way that it could have been done to the level that it was done with a shot gun over our heads.
This is a very thorough document. If all you have read and understood is the Negotiator's Note pad then I understand. That was not done well. The legal documents on the other hand are very complex. I applaud both sides for taking so much it to account for all parties.

 

And people this is the quote of the day.
This is fact. Decisions based on fear and anger will get you no where.

 

I don't have the documents, I haven't read them, and I don't fully trust the folks who have.

You don't seem to grasp that perception is reality. Even if this is the best deal humanly possible (which I seriously doubt), there is a sizable number of the pilot group who do not feel that way--and who do not trust the MEC.

In fact, many (including myself) feel that the MEC is more worried about the NWA group than the DAL group. That is the perception, and thus, reality.

 

Heyas Spliff,

And there you have it. You are LOCKED into LOA19. Management needs NOTHING MORE from you, so NOTHING MORE is required to be put on the table.

What they DO need, however, is the NWA guys on board, and the same changes to our PWA that you needed in yours to make the merger happen.

And that comes at a price. And since you guys have LOA 19, for better or worse, that means the rest of the trinkets on the table can go to NWA to lock up their side of the deal.

The irony of the situation is that most NWA guys would be much happier to have our current PWA with pay raises & tweaks as opposed to the DAL contract + JPWA. Once that's in place, there won't be much motivation to move off that.

Sucks, but that's the way you wanted to play the game. This is PRECISELY the reason why a joint agreement is preferable.

Nu