Vote YES to TA for DAL Pilots
08-05-2008 | 04:30 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Mil Leave from NWA...Now DAL, IP in KC-135R
My grandfather was a railroad man for 40 years. He lived the constant struggle between labor and management, and saw his career go slowly but surely down the crapper and eventually disappear in light of labors' incessant quest for more money despite decreased profitability of the company. Sure hope we don't make the same stupid mistakes, but I'm not convinced we're any smarter. Can't get blood from a stone.
08-05-2008 | 04:30 PM
#42
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
08-05-2008 | 06:58 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: 765-A
I find it almost comical that the DAL guys (who, by the way, just a few short months ago were harping on us NWA guys to just trust in the DAL MEC to do the right thing and get us the best deal) are now saying they are wrong to be endorsing this. What happened to all of the "our guys are true leaders" and "highest integrity" and "looking out for our interests"? Did you lose faith with them between then and now? Did we just discover some enormous oil reserve that's going to drive the price of oil down to $80 a barrel? Is the recession turning around suddenly and now everone is just looking to travel so they can spend all that extra money they've got? If something's changed, please let us all know. Short of that, you're delusional.
Bingo. Their union leaders were the greatest thing since sliced cheese a few months ago, now they can't be trusted. To get into a debate with these types will cause your head to spin.
08-05-2008 | 07:33 PM
#44
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08-05-2008 | 07:36 PM
#45
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Big ones
Spliff,
During furlough I was privy to have a management job away from Delta that allowed me to be in a boardroom. Time and again I was privy to information that considered "insider" information. Our MEC has that information as well and it can't be disseminated to the rank and file without landing them in jail. The best they can do is come forward with a TA that takes in those facts. You don't know the business plan. I don't either in this case. But I can tell you emphatically, that as a former Director, the MEC is privy to this, has a member on the board who is privy to this and we need to understand that just because oil is down to $120/barrel its still $30/barrel higher than when the merger was first announced. Oil at this level still means a loss to the company. ACL65 is right, this merger is going to cost billions. A new terminal at JFK is going to cost billions. New a/c are going to cost billions. And a new contract is going to do the same. I would rather negotiate in four years when many of these costs have been absorbed and still be making the highest wages of any legacy carrier than hamstring the company and put all of us at risk. To me, that's the risk that is unacceptable.
During furlough I was privy to have a management job away from Delta that allowed me to be in a boardroom. Time and again I was privy to information that considered "insider" information. Our MEC has that information as well and it can't be disseminated to the rank and file without landing them in jail. The best they can do is come forward with a TA that takes in those facts. You don't know the business plan. I don't either in this case. But I can tell you emphatically, that as a former Director, the MEC is privy to this, has a member on the board who is privy to this and we need to understand that just because oil is down to $120/barrel its still $30/barrel higher than when the merger was first announced. Oil at this level still means a loss to the company. ACL65 is right, this merger is going to cost billions. A new terminal at JFK is going to cost billions. New a/c are going to cost billions. And a new contract is going to do the same. I would rather negotiate in four years when many of these costs have been absorbed and still be making the highest wages of any legacy carrier than hamstring the company and put all of us at risk. To me, that's the risk that is unacceptable.
08-05-2008 | 07:58 PM
#46
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From: 765-A
Maybe because you had 5 shots of JD? 
No really, I can't say that of all the DAL guys who want to vote no. But the ones who just two short months ago loved your union and Delta Air Lines dirty draws, who now don't trust them, are the ones who spin my head.
If you really feel that some of my positions are contradictory or comnplete reversals, then feel free to list them. (Or, were you just trying to be clever with your shot comment?)
No really, I can't say that of all the DAL guys who want to vote no. But the ones who just two short months ago loved your union and Delta Air Lines dirty draws, who now don't trust them, are the ones who spin my head.
If you really feel that some of my positions are contradictory or comnplete reversals, then feel free to list them. (Or, were you just trying to be clever with your shot comment?)
08-05-2008 | 11:25 PM
#47
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
The point is they have you locked in on LOA 19 if you vote NO. They dont have to negotiate any further with DALPA. However they will have to negotiate with NWALPA because of our Scope. DAL mgmt knows they dont have to give more because you guys signed LOA 19 and thus locked yourselves in a box without the JCBA.
08-06-2008 | 05:57 AM
#48
Happy to be here
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From: A-320A
The fact is that most pilots expected something better than LOA 19 rates when in fact the union (from the get go) stated that LOA 19's purpose was to get the JPWA gains for the DAL pilots up front. It basically was the JPWA terms for just the DAL guys. FWIW the MEC's story has not changed.
Now with the JPWA's vote closing in less than five days people feel that it should have been more. I think we need to realize what the true purpose of this agreement is. It is not a Section 6 negotiated contract. It is an interim deal. Vote it down and there are a lot of things that may or may not occur.
It is a dangerous game to play. Fact is that we have about 18 months to make it right before we would start to feel the real effects of a NO vote.
Now with the JPWA's vote closing in less than five days people feel that it should have been more. I think we need to realize what the true purpose of this agreement is. It is not a Section 6 negotiated contract. It is an interim deal. Vote it down and there are a lot of things that may or may not occur.
It is a dangerous game to play. Fact is that we have about 18 months to make it right before we would start to feel the real effects of a NO vote.
08-06-2008 | 07:26 AM
#49
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Funny how you now view LOA 19 as locking ourselves into a box, whereas before you realized you will be receiving all the gains obtained thereby; it was bending over our NWA brothers... And FWIW, I haven't decided on how I will vote yet... not that it's anybody's business. But just out of curiosity, how will you feel about the DAL pilots IF this thing gets voted down and you have to actually have to negotiate with the company for yourself? Will you still want to sing Kumbaya with us?
Probably not. The feeling around here is that JPWA corrected a mistake, and that MAYBE we were all pulling from the same side of the rope. Moak and company preached on and on that LOA wasn't about leverage or getting the upper hand or selling the NWA guys out, and followed through with the JPWA. Thus SOME semblance of trust was starting to develop.
Was it perfect? No. I, for one, wish that we had cherry picked more items, but there is always time for that down the road. "Mid-term" corrections are ALWAYS possible.
Should the JPWA be voted down, then the NWA guys will assume that it was all BS, that the typical line guy at DAL is representitive the stereotype. The NWA MEC and negotiators will proceed to cut the BEST possible deal for their own pilot group and hunker down for a year or more of detailed, painstaking, and expensive arbitration.
Tens, if not hundereds of million of dollars in benefits will be lost. RA will realize that he cannot trust the DAL pilot leadership to fully represent the
"will of the pilot group" and may instead will turn a group whose motivations he better understands.
The careful "bridging" that has occurred will be lost, and suspicion will reign among "blue tail" and "red tail" for the next 20 years.
Just a hunch...
Nu
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