Jetblue close to alpa vote
06-06-2011, 02:19 PM
#361
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by tone
It's been working there for 11 years. Why wouldn't it continue to work? Unions create costs that can ruin jetblue's consistent profitibliliy. But specifically, ALPA is a terrible excuse for a union. This is a proven statement over and over again. No emotion here, just the facts. Sorry, I know the truth hurts.
06-06-2011, 03:26 PM
#362
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: A320, Left
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by Dirty Rat
I will agree with you that ALPA Medical is good. I saw them help a lot pilots who otherwise would have not been in the cockpit. AOPA offers the same thing for a lot less. ALPA National has the final say on everything. They are a business. The way to keep the business going is to cut cost. They do that by ignoring everyone but the giants. Do you honestly think they would have put the same kind of effort into protecting us as they would for Delta or United? I don't want to get in a ****ing match here but there are two sides to every story. I don't work for JB and don't know anyone who works there. I don't know your situation and I have not walked in your shoes. I still think you are better off having a direct path to your management than by a using a third party. Just my opinion. No more from me. I'm obviously anti Union. ALPA made me that way. Good luck to the JB pilots on whatever road you choose.
06-06-2011, 03:59 PM
#363
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by txbusdriver
What facts? I see not one fact in your argument.
1. Fact: When American purchased TWA it was ALPA's lawyer that botched-up the integration so bad that it was the worst seniority integration in airline history.
2. Fact: The US Airways pilot group actually voted OUT ALPA after the America West merger and afterpaying dues to ALPA for a long time.
3. Fact: It will be ALPA that negotiates the jetblue pilots' contract to be for the rest of their careers.
06-06-2011, 04:49 PM
#364
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by tone
Oh sorry, I guess I left out the most important parts:
1. Fact: When American purchased TWA it was ALPA's lawyer that botched-up the integration so bad that it was the worst seniority integration in airline history.
Wrong TWA WAS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS there would habe been no jobs at all if they werent furloughed
2. Fact: The US Airways pilot group actually voted OUT ALPA after the America West merger and afterpaying dues to ALPA for a long time.
True; However The East guys didn't want integration and gave no other viable option which again is their right
3. Fact: It will be ALPA that negotiates the jetblue pilots' contract to be for the rest of their careers.
1. Fact: When American purchased TWA it was ALPA's lawyer that botched-up the integration so bad that it was the worst seniority integration in airline history.
Wrong TWA WAS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS there would habe been no jobs at all if they werent furloughed
2. Fact: The US Airways pilot group actually voted OUT ALPA after the America West merger and afterpaying dues to ALPA for a long time.
True; However The East guys didn't want integration and gave no other viable option which again is their right
3. Fact: It will be ALPA that negotiates the jetblue pilots' contract to be for the rest of their careers.
06-06-2011, 06:16 PM
#368
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MD-80 FO
Posts: 91
Quick Question.... and I am not trying to be inflamatory..... but here it goes....
I knew Captains (OLD Captains) at my previous airline that were NOT memebers of the union (ALPA) and were NOT paying dues.
The reason for this is that they were hired BEFORE a union was voted on property.
I asked my union reps about this and dusted off the Labor Law text book from the college class... and yes, it was all true.
So my question is this.... If JetBlue votes in a union.... Why wouldn't the people on here that are voting "NO" or voiceing opposition to a union simply not join and not pay dues.
YES, the new union will try to get you to sign a form for Dues Check off in spite of the fact that you have told them you do not plan on joining. This is where you say "No Thank you."
They may even tell you that you HAVE TO SIGN THE FORM. They will say this because once you have signed it.... You Can't EVER retract it. You will pay union dues no matter what (member or not) unless you quit.
For the folks on here that object to a pilot union being on property at Jet Blue... You have an easy decision to make.
You were hired at Jet Blue first and are under NO OBLIGATION TO JOIN OR PAY DUES.
1. Dont Join the union or sign anything the union gives you.
2. Do not give the union your contact information and if they do contact you.... tell them their communication is unwelcome and they are not permitted to harass you any further.
People that want a union will have it and can enjoy wonderful protections that union membership provides them just like it is doing for the Midwest pilots, Frontier Pilots, Comair Pilots, etc.
Everybody wins and Everybody is happy.
I knew Captains (OLD Captains) at my previous airline that were NOT memebers of the union (ALPA) and were NOT paying dues.
The reason for this is that they were hired BEFORE a union was voted on property.
I asked my union reps about this and dusted off the Labor Law text book from the college class... and yes, it was all true.
So my question is this.... If JetBlue votes in a union.... Why wouldn't the people on here that are voting "NO" or voiceing opposition to a union simply not join and not pay dues.
YES, the new union will try to get you to sign a form for Dues Check off in spite of the fact that you have told them you do not plan on joining. This is where you say "No Thank you."
They may even tell you that you HAVE TO SIGN THE FORM. They will say this because once you have signed it.... You Can't EVER retract it. You will pay union dues no matter what (member or not) unless you quit.
For the folks on here that object to a pilot union being on property at Jet Blue... You have an easy decision to make.
You were hired at Jet Blue first and are under NO OBLIGATION TO JOIN OR PAY DUES.
1. Dont Join the union or sign anything the union gives you.
2. Do not give the union your contact information and if they do contact you.... tell them their communication is unwelcome and they are not permitted to harass you any further.
People that want a union will have it and can enjoy wonderful protections that union membership provides them just like it is doing for the Midwest pilots, Frontier Pilots, Comair Pilots, etc.
Everybody wins and Everybody is happy.
06-06-2011, 06:40 PM
#369
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 312
ALPA usually insist on a "Closed Shop". This means that even if you choose not to join, you are forced to pay a "Maintenance Fee". They get your money anyway, which is the main purpose of ALPA or any union for that matter.
06-06-2011, 07:26 PM
#370
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
This is probably totally correct. But then why pay 2% to an organization that will (by your own words) not make any difference in your results?
True. But then why doesn't ALPA have RLA and NMB reform on its agenda for change? I can't find any recent ALPA documents that even mentions it. If I've missed it, I trust you'll correct me.
I'm glad for you. Others of us no longer feel that way.
Carl
True. But then why doesn't ALPA have RLA and NMB reform on its agenda for change? I can't find any recent ALPA documents that even mentions it. If I've missed it, I trust you'll correct me.
I'm glad for you. Others of us no longer feel that way.
Carl
In the Midwest case, I'm guessing things would have been worse without ALPA. I'm not familiar with the exact proceedings, but I do believe some employment assistance was rendered. Perhaps a former Midwest pilot can chime in here. But one robin doth not a spring make. Just because they weren't successful in holding off this management doesn't mean that the organization as a whole has no value. Are you for a bunch of independent unions, or no unions at all. The independent route doesn't seem to be working in some cases: see AMR and USAirways for example. If you are suggesting NO unions in the industry, do you really think that leaving your future to the goodwill of your managent is a good idea?? I sure don't.
I think we differ on basic perspective. You see how things are going and tend to blame ALPA for not fixing the problems. I look at how things COULD be going if unions didn't exist. We'd all be flying the FAR's.
Even Non union carriers have benefitted from ALPA. Do you think the QOL and pay at jetBlue came out of management being friendly? I suspect that they do just enough to try to keep a union off the property based on what union pilots have been able to negotiate.
An example of life at a non union carrier. Skywest just opened a PDX jet base for the flying they stole from Horizon. The EMB120 base in PDX is ULTRA senior, and full of pilots who would rather live in base them commute just to fly the jet. Now with the jet base opening, they can finally have both, right? Wrong. If you weren't already on the jet, you couldnt bid jet Captain in PDX. Total BS. But the company can do anything they want, at any time.
As far as the RLA argument, I fully agree. I wish ALPA National would use some muscle to reform it. Unfortunately, I suspect the $$$ of people (airlines) who want to keep it the way it is would FAR outspend what ALPA can throw at it. Perhaps they feel it's a battle they cant win and therefore a waste of resources. But I am in agreement that I wish they would try.
Sorry you pay your 2% with you nose plugged. I do know that many ALPA pilots who have benefitted from your dues in COBRA for furloughees and money during a strike thank you, and appreciate the support. If we are allowed to strike, I know I'll be very thankful to all ALPA pilots for supporting us during my time on the line.
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