bipolarpilot

So, anybody know when the vote is scheduled to take place? Or has it been completed already?

Carl Spackler

The Midwest case was a travesty on the part of ALPA. Top to bottom. If there's a Midwest pilot monitoring this thread, they can explain exactly why.

I'm not saying ALPA has no value. I'm saying that ALPA did not even TRY to hold off management or fight for the Midwest pilots. Again, Midwest pilots will explain to you what happened.

Independent unions. I wouldn't work for an airline whose pilots were not represented. That's actually dangerous in my opinion.

SWAPA, IPA and IBT are examples of just the opposite. In the case of SWAPA and IBT, they enjoy the highest pay rates and working conditions over ANY ALPA carrier...bar none.

Don't believe that at all. See above.

No. I blame ALPA for not even TRYING to fix problems. That's the point. TRY to reform the RLA and the NMB. TRY to help the TWA pilots in their merger with American instead of withholding funding and siding with AMR pilots. TRY to defend blatant violations of scope, etc.

No...non-union pilots have benefitted from union pilots not just ALPA pilots. You seem to be equating ALPA with union, and non-ALPA with non-union. That's a mistake. I'm not arguing non-union. I'm arguing non-ALPA.

Those items weren't paid with the 2% dues money that I paid with my nose plugged. Those items were funded by additional special assessments that most of us were happy to pay.

Carl

Carl Spackler

The more important question is: What will ALPA do if JetBlue is bought by a non-ALPA carrier...like American for example. Will ALPA do anything necessary to gain the favor of American pilots so they'll join ALPA? Even at the expense of their soon to be own JetBlue pilots?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Or the other option would have been to use AOPA's medical assistance. They are really good, just like ALPA's folks. But they are much cheaper to use than a non-ALPA guy using ALPA aeromedical. AOPA's medical assistance is sub-contracted out...so is ALPA's.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Wow! Have you forgotten that TWA pilots had ALPA as their bargaining agent during this time? Have you forgotten that it was ALPA's responsibility to fairly represent (read: fight like hell for) the TWA pilots? Of course TWA pilots' outcome would probably have been worse had they been non-union...but they weren't! They were represented by ALPA. And ALPA withheld funding from them and alleged to have been more interested in the AMR pilots hoping they would join ALPA. That's the topic here...not union versus non-union.

I don't think the USAPA situation is the fault of ALPA.

Another false choice. Nobody is proffering that. The point is whether or not ALPA has a record of representation that makes them worth hiring.

Carl

Carl Spackler

I only talked about contract negotiations because that was the topic of conversation. Let's talk about all the other things a pilot union should be about. Then let's talk about ALPA's record on these items.

Carl

johnso29

Eastern, Pan Am, & TWA were all victims of poor management. What was ALPA to do? Use everyone's dues money to keep the companies alive? UsAir pilots agreed to binding arbitration and then took their toys and went home when they didn't get their way. They left ALPA because it was the ONLY way to get out of the list. The list which USALPA agreed would be decided by arbitration. The reps that were elected by the pilots of UsAir. Now USAPA has failed to get anything done other then spend millions of $$$ while their members continue to work on BK wages. Funny how they kick ALPA out, but still want the wages that ALPA negotiated. Some progress.

Perhaps people should talk to the thousands of ALPA members whose lives and marriages have been saved through recovery programs for substance abuse or counseling available for traumatic situations such as death of children or spouses. Houses being rebuilt through local council funds, being able to take time off work without question because of the Pilot Assistance Network(PAN), or having programs such as ASAP.


ALPA goes way beyond contracts & seniority list intergrations. They have their flaws, but are not the worst by far.

Carl Spackler

What was ALPA to do? Seriously? How about starting by representing their member pilots instead of withholding funding while hoping to gain membership from your current adversaries.

All great things. Similar things are done everday by charities and local churches.

This should be ALPA's advertising slogan: "Vote for ALPA...we're not the worst by far."

Carl

uvuflier

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ClutchCargo

FedEx pilots, represented by ALPA enjoy the highest pay and benefits of any pilot group.

IBT? What IBT group is at the top? ABEX? Oh yeah, they've got a really bright future. Half of their pilot group is furloughed.

Just tryin' to keep things factual.