Frontier Pilots Forced into IBT Representation

The results of a National Mediation Board (“NMB”) representation election provided the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division (“IBT”) with sufficient votes to prevail as the bargaining representative for the combined class and craft of pilots at Republic Air Holdings, Inc. This election was the result of an ongoing hostile effort by IBT to displace the chosen representative of the Frontier Airlines Pilots, the Frontier Airline Pilots Association (“FAPA”).

The outcome of the election was not surprising as nearly 1800 Republic Pilots were already represented by IBT compared to less than 700 Frontier Pilots represented by FAPA. FAPA had worked to establish a joint council for all the pilots to retain their chosen representatives and received nearly 650 votes for that council. “We spent several days with the IBT trying to come up with a structure that we could agree on, one that would respect the differing views and interests of the two groups. In the end, it came down to the IBT wanting complete control," said Scott Gould, FAPA Vice President.

The results of the election vote, and both pre- and post-election polling, clearly showed no support for IBT representation among Frontier Pilots. “It is a sad day for all labor groups when a labor organization takes a hostile approach to strip another groups chosen representative,” said Jeff Thomas President of Frontier Airline Pilots Association. “While the IBT professes to seek 'Unity', their actions have achieved nothing of the sort and have created an acrimonious environment within the pilot groups.”

FAPA will continue to exist as a voluntary association. Thomas stated: “We will continue to provide a forum for the Frontier Pilots, as Republic proceeds with its recently announced restructuring including the separation of Frontier from the Republic operation.” Republic management has recently embarked on a strategic restructuring, including commitments to operational separation of Frontier from Republic, the raising of new equity, and good faith efforts to divest majority ownership of Frontier from Republic. On June 17, the Frontier Pilots overwhelming ratified agreements negotiated by Frontier, Republic and FAPA as part of that restructuring.

For additional information please email: [email protected]

 

The "whip saw" theory is interesting and can be viewed in a number of ways.

Local 357 has stated their goal as Jet Blue rates, this establishes an expectation among the pilot group.

Jet Blue only has 190's, no 135/145/170/175's. IF you're able to get Jet Blue rates on the 190's, what is the goal for all the other aircraft rates?

What "peer group" will 357 use for the smaller aircraft, I believe the majority of your most senior pilots are on the 135/145 (not that I have to ask, but if that's incorrect, please correct me).

So now are the different aircraft types pay rates within native RAH being "whip sawed" internally?

 

Frontier Pilots Forced into IBT Representation...................

The results of a National Mediation Board (“NMB”) representation election provided the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division (“IBT”) with sufficient votes to prevail as the bargaining representative for the combined class and craft of pilots at Republic Air Holdings, Inc. This election was the result of an ongoing hostile effort by IBT to displace the chosen representative of the Frontier Airlines Pilots, the Frontier Airline Pilots Association (“FAPA”).

The outcome of the election was not surprising as nearly 1800 Republic Pilots were already represented by IBT compared to less than 700 Frontier Pilots represented by FAPA. FAPA had worked to establish a joint council for all the pilots to retain their chosen representatives and received nearly 650 votes for that council.

“We spent several days with the IBT trying to come up with a structure that we could agree on, one that would respect the differing views and interests of the two groups. In the end, it came down to the IBT wanting complete control," said Scott Gould, FAPA Vice President.

No, the FAPA BOD and F9 Pilots does not want to abide by the SLI award, wants to avoid the RAH scope clause, and the FAPA board does not want to lead its own group to unity by moving forward. That is the reason F9 lost, that is the reason F9 BOD and F9 pilots does not have any integrity, and that is the reason no other airline pilot group respects the F9 Pilots. You did sign the dotted line to get out of bankruptcy knowing full well the RAH scope clause. You did sign the binding arbitration. You did agree to all of this. Now, that you did not like the outcome, you want the company to divest all of its interest. If you did not want to go by the process, then you all should have liquidated the start over and apply if you can at Southwest. From all the other airlines, you are just USFAPA to lack of a better word - No "Integrity"

The results of the election vote, and both pre- and post-election polling, clearly showed no support for IBT representation among Frontier Pilots.

How could it be? Maybe the reason for that is the F9 BOD does not want to face the reality that you were bought from bankruptcy, you lost the SLI, you lost NMB, you lost the election, and you just plain lost! I know the pride is eating you all up but it is time to move or unless you really want to carry all of that pride and lack of reality till you are 65.

“It is a sad day for all labor groups when a labor organization takes a hostile approach to strip another groups chosen representative,” said Jeff Thomas President of Frontier Airline Pilots Association.

They did not strip you all of any representation. You just plainly lost the election. F9 BOD and F9 pilots tried so hard to convenience the other groups to switch sides with a council approach while failing to understand the other union members. That is the reason F9 BOD failed, failure to grasp the reality and other union members that they are trying to lure to vote. How can they vote for you when you tried to negate the SLI award with the recent LOA and exclude other pilots groups, sue the folks on the SLI, don't abide by the SLI award, tried so hard to remain separate, don't abide by the RAH scope, and above all, you tried to staple the ones you are truing to court. How many voted for ALPA again and not FAPA/RPC?

“While the IBT professes to seek 'Unity', their actions have achieved nothing of the sort and have created an acrimonious environment within the pilot groups.”

FAPA will continue to exist as a voluntary association. Thomas stated: “We will continue to provide a forum for the Frontier Pilots, as Republic proceeds with its recently announced restructuring including the separation of Frontier from the Republic operation.” Republic management has recently embarked on a strategic restructuring, including commitments to operational separation of Frontier from Republic, the raising of new equity, and good faith efforts to divest majority ownership of Frontier from Republic. On June 17, the Frontier Pilots overwhelming ratified agreements negotiated by Frontier, Republic and FAPA as part of that restructuring.

The above statement is the reason you all lost. The reason you all have no integrity. The reason all other pilot groups of all airlines looks down on the F9 BOD and F9 pilots aka USFAPA for their lack of integrity. You were all bankrupt before. Be grateful someone bailed you all out of bankruptcy. Be grateful you have a job. Be grateful you still work. If you don't like it, quit. Apply at Southwest. If they don't take you because of your integrity, go apply at Vision Airlines. Above all, start at the bottom of the seniority for another pilot group.

F9 BOD and F9 pilots are just a bunch whining sore losers!

For additional information please email: [email protected][/QUOTE]

 

The really sad/amazing part of this is that no Frontier pilot would have had to apply at Southwest...if they would have simply said YES to the Southwest buyout.

Epic failure of all time guys.

Carl

 

Slum,

I'm not a RAH pilot and never will be. My ID still says Frontier. My paycheck still says Frontier. I'm sure we will either be TU or divested within 2 years. Either way, I will never be an RAH pilot (thankfully).

 

Your ID will say A Republic Airways Company when your current one expires. They are way too cheap to issue new ones for that reason.

You get paper paychecks? Cool. Who signed it? Look closely.

2 years? I hope you are sold. If you are not, I hope you guys get your collective ego in check.

You are a RAH pilot. You need that explained to you?

 

Well Ichi, you can bite me you delta weenie. Since hiring at delta had nothing to do with actual skill or experience, I guess that makes you the scab. You took a job you weren't qualified for. As far as RAH, not gonna happen unless the idiots do strike then they'll learn what payback really means. P.S. Gannon is an idiot.

 

We sure are learning a lot about the personalities of F9 pilots.

 

Wow Ichiro, do you and Carl know each other? You both subscribe to the theory that if you repeat something over and over again that it must be true.

I get the impression that you think FAPA has an integrity problem. Interesting.

Do you know anything about similar representation disputes involving the IBT? How about the business plan at RAH?

Let me share a few with you, hopefully you will be able to notice the difference between the way the IBT has handled this in the past and how they are handling this issue today with FAPA.

When Polar and Atlas merged, there was a representation dispute. The IBT prevailed over ALPA and a transition structure was formed.

The Polar pilots administrated the Polar contract. The Atlas pilots administrated the Atlas contract. This structure lasted until an amalgamated CBA was negotiated. Both groups reported to the Local 1224. The local 1224 was run by a majority of Abex pilots, a relative neutral party.

This same exact structure was presented to the IBT Airline Division by FAPA.

FAPA would administrate the FAPA CBA. Local 357 would administrate their CBA. This joint structure would operate until contract amalgamation. Both groups would be IBT on day one. The FAPA pilots would pay IBT dues and be IBT members. The IBT Airline Division was interested enough to bring in the attorneys from both sides to discuss the concept in greater detail. Unfortunately, the AD spoke with RH and WH at RAH and learned that RAH had every intention of spinning off Frontier.

If FAPA was designated at the bargaining agent at Frontier and Frontier was sold, the IBT would lose their newly minted IBT members.

The IBT doesn't like losing members, and they like representation elections even less. The IBT Airline Division decided that the council structure that worked so well at Polar/Atlas was not good enough for Frontier pilots because they didn't want to have to start over from scratch again if Frontier was sold.

Integrity? The IBT will argue any side of the case, as long as it favors the IBT.

How about something closer to home. Lets chat about how the IBT handled the Midwest Flight Attendants when RAH purchased Midwest Airlines.

The IBT's attorney, William Wilder (Local 357's attorney as well) argued that the purchase of Midwest was not a covered transaction under A-M. Wilder claimed that Midwest was not an "air carrier", nor was RAH for that matter. If the purchase was not a covered transaction under A-M, LPP's 3 and 13 do not apply and the Midwest FA's are SOL.

You see, the IBT doesn't want what is best for labor. The IBT wants what is best for the IBT, regardless of the cost. No matter how many times they wave their "trade union" flag, their actions speak much louder than their empty words. The Midwest FA's should have been welcomed with open arms, or at the very least been allowed to negotiate, mediate and arbitrate. Unfortunately, it was too big of a risk for the native RAH FA's when you consider the relative seniority of the Midwest FA's. The IBT left them out to dry in an effort to protect the current IBT members. The hypocrisy reached EPIC proportions recently when the IBT filed a new representation dispute for the craft and class of FA's at RAH. They intentionally did not include Frontier FA's this time, because the Frontier FA's are now represented by the AFA. The IBT knows they will lose against the AFA so they plan on increasing their numbers with the most recent representation dispute. Once they prevail unopposed they will submit yet another filing, this time including the Frontier AFA flight attendants. Unfortunately the AFA will be wildly outnumbered and we know the eventual outcome.

Integrity? Throw the Midwest FA's under the bus. Make them start over as new hires. Pick and choose your representation dispute in an effort to guarantee the result by majority rule. The IBT way.

How about the Midwest pilots? The IBT intentionally excluded the Midwest pilots from the recent representation dispute. Their attorney, William Wilder, claimed that the Midwest certificate no longer existed therefor the Midwest pilots no longer existed. The IBT wanted the single transportation system to include Republic, Chautauqa, Shuttle, Lynx, and Frontier. They wanted to leave the senior Midwest pilots on the street. All of this information is in the public domain, go read the IBT filing and read the paragraph from Wilder explaining why the Midwest pilots should be excluded.

Integrity? Trade Unionism?

How about we skip to the most important issue. Money.

The IBT wants to raid FAPA's contingency fund. Even though the Abex pilots (IBT) were allowed to put their funds in a lock box that no other IBT pilot could access, FAPA's funds must become the IBT's funds.

Integrity? Why does the IBT change their argument and strategy so often? The definition of integrity is as follows...

adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.

The IBT will not adhere to any principle other than the path that serves the IBT, at any cost.

ALPA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.
AFA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT beneifts.
FAPA money lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.

If the IBT benefits, than all bets/morals/principles are off.

One separate but related note, Mr. Ichiro. You mentioned the "IBT scope" as if it is superior to the other CBA's involved. The FAPA CBA is still in effect, and will remain in effect until it is amended by the majority of the membership. The IBT scope does not trump our CBA. The IBT scope does not trump the FAPA BoD's responsibility of Fair Representation to the FAPA membership. There is a phrase that the Local 357 will learn in the near future....

""Majority opposition does not defeat the duty of fair representation; the duty exists to restrain the majority.""

We are all IBT today, but that does not diminish the IBT's DUTY to administrate the FAPA CBA. They wanted it, they got it.

Finally, the honorable Mr. Hoffa is up for re-election as we read this post.

What did Mr. Hoffa OPEN his campaign with at the IBT convention yesterday....

"The International Brotherhood of Teamsters opened their 28th International Convention today with plenty of noise and a new resolve to stand up for the American Dream. Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa announced the Teamsters had organized 135,000 new members in the past five years since their last convention – more than any other labor union in North America. Hours later, he announced that more than 3,000 Republic Airways pilots had just voted to join or remain with the Teamsters by a margin of 2-to-1.
“This is how we fight back – we organize,” Hoffa said.
Teamsters International General Secretary-Treasurer Tom Keegel also set the tone early in the day with a vow: “There’s no way they’re going to bust us or take us down because it ain’t gonna happen.”"



You don't think that the IBT AD backed out on their council structure with FAPA because it might hurt Hoffa's re-election, do you?

Integrity?


Zoo
Proud FAPA Member

 

There is no reason for the existence of the chq certificate when Amr goes away. There will still be a need for both shuttle and republic due to deltas scope clause