IBT wins Representation election at Republic
06-29-2011 | 03:18 PM
#111
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Well Ichi, you can bite me you delta weenie. Since hiring at delta had nothing to do with actual skill or experience, I guess that makes you the scab. You took a job you weren't qualified for. As far as RAH, not gonna happen unless the idiots do strike then they'll learn what payback really means. P.S. Gannon is an idiot.
P.S. Gannon is not an idiot. The ball is in his court, lets see what happens next.
06-29-2011 | 03:26 PM
#112
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You do realize that labor had NO say in the auction, don't you?
How about UBS and their $300 MM claim?
Credit Suisse?
Did FAPA also "say no" to the Perseus deal? You don't know what the perseus deal is, do you?
How about "group DIP I". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what Group DIP I is, do you?
How about "group DIP II". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what group DIP II is, do you?
I will make it easy on you. Try and learn about one of the three financial transactions listed above and identify when FAPA had their chance to say "yes" or "no". Good luck.
Keep typing though. Keep typing....
06-29-2011 | 03:44 PM
#113
30W
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 23
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From: Heavies GE
Well Ichi, you can bite me you delta weenie. Since hiring at delta had nothing to do with actual skill or experience, I guess that makes you the scab. You took a job you weren't qualified for. As far as RAH, not gonna happen unless the idiots do strike then they'll learn what payback really means. P.S. Gannon is an idiot.
Hey Boy, No wonder you didn't get on with DA, you failed the psychological test miserably with that statement. Am talking about a strike or a Scab? You must be on a different planet. If you have issues with that guy, I suggest you take it up with him personally.
Seriously, you have a pride problem. Too much of it ain't good for you. Move on and or quit.
06-29-2011 | 04:29 PM
#115
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From: 747-400 Captain
Wow Ichiro, do you and Carl know each other? You both subscribe to the theory that if you repeat something over and over again that it must be true.
I get the impression that you think FAPA has an integrity problem. Interesting.
Do you know anything about similar representation disputes involving the IBT? How about the business plan at RAH?
Let me share a few with you, hopefully you will be able to notice the difference between the way the IBT has handled this in the past and how they are handling this issue today with FAPA.
When Polar and Atlas merged, there was a representation dispute. The IBT prevailed over ALPA and a transition structure was formed.
The Polar pilots administrated the Polar contract. The Atlas pilots administrated the Atlas contract. This structure lasted until an amalgamated CBA was negotiated. Both groups reported to the Local 1224. The local 1224 was run by a majority of Abex pilots, a relative neutral party.
This same exact structure was presented to the IBT Airline Division by FAPA.
FAPA would administrate the FAPA CBA. Local 357 would administrate their CBA. This joint structure would operate until contract amalgamation. Both groups would be IBT on day one. The FAPA pilots would pay IBT dues and be IBT members. The IBT Airline Division was interested enough to bring in the attorneys from both sides to discuss the concept in greater detail. Unfortunately, the AD spoke with RH and WH at RAH and learned that RAH had every intention of spinning off Frontier.
If FAPA was designated at the bargaining agent at Frontier and Frontier was sold, the IBT would lose their newly minted IBT members.
The IBT doesn't like losing members, and they like representation elections even less. The IBT Airline Division decided that the council structure that worked so well at Polar/Atlas was not good enough for Frontier pilots because they didn't want to have to start over from scratch again if Frontier was sold.
Integrity? The IBT will argue any side of the case, as long as it favors the IBT.
How about something closer to home. Lets chat about how the IBT handled the Midwest Flight Attendants when RAH purchased Midwest Airlines.
The IBT's attorney, William Wilder (Local 357's attorney as well) argued that the purchase of Midwest was not a covered transaction under A-M. Wilder claimed that Midwest was not an "air carrier", nor was RAH for that matter. If the purchase was not a covered transaction under A-M, LPP's 3 and 13 do not apply and the Midwest FA's are SOL.
You see, the IBT doesn't want what is best for labor. The IBT wants what is best for the IBT, regardless of the cost. No matter how many times they wave their "trade union" flag, their actions speak much louder than their empty words. The Midwest FA's should have been welcomed with open arms, or at the very least been allowed to negotiate, mediate and arbitrate. Unfortunately, it was too big of a risk for the native RAH FA's when you consider the relative seniority of the Midwest FA's. The IBT left them out to dry in an effort to protect the current IBT members. The hypocrisy reached EPIC proportions recently when the IBT filed a new representation dispute for the craft and class of FA's at RAH. They intentionally did not include Frontier FA's this time, because the Frontier FA's are now represented by the AFA. The IBT knows they will lose against the AFA so they plan on increasing their numbers with the most recent representation dispute. Once they prevail unopposed they will submit yet another filing, this time including the Frontier AFA flight attendants. Unfortunately the AFA will be wildly outnumbered and we know the eventual outcome.
Integrity? Throw the Midwest FA's under the bus. Make them start over as new hires. Pick and choose your representation dispute in an effort to guarantee the result by majority rule. The IBT way.
How about the Midwest pilots? The IBT intentionally excluded the Midwest pilots from the recent representation dispute. Their attorney, William Wilder, claimed that the Midwest certificate no longer existed therefor the Midwest pilots no longer existed. The IBT wanted the single transportation system to include Republic, Chautauqa, Shuttle, Lynx, and Frontier. They wanted to leave the senior Midwest pilots on the street. All of this information is in the public domain, go read the IBT filing and read the paragraph from Wilder explaining why the Midwest pilots should be excluded.
Integrity? Trade Unionism?
How about we skip to the most important issue. Money.
The IBT wants to raid FAPA's contingency fund. Even though the Abex pilots (IBT) were allowed to put their funds in a lock box that no other IBT pilot could access, FAPA's funds must become the IBT's funds.
Integrity? Why does the IBT change their argument and strategy so often? The definition of integrity is as follows...
adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
The IBT will not adhere to any principle other than the path that serves the IBT, at any cost.
ALPA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.
AFA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT beneifts.
FAPA money lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.
If the IBT benefits, than all bets/morals/principles are off.
One separate but related note, Mr. Ichiro. You mentioned the "IBT scope" as if it is superior to the other CBA's involved. The FAPA CBA is still in effect, and will remain in effect until it is amended by the majority of the membership. The IBT scope does not trump our CBA. The IBT scope does not trump the FAPA BoD's responsibility of Fair Representation to the FAPA membership. There is a phrase that the Local 357 will learn in the near future....
""Majority opposition does not defeat the duty of fair representation; the duty exists to restrain the majority.""
We are all IBT today, but that does not diminish the IBT's DUTY to administrate the FAPA CBA. They wanted it, they got it.
Finally, the honorable Mr. Hoffa is up for re-election as we read this post.
What did Mr. Hoffa OPEN his campaign with at the IBT convention yesterday....
"The International Brotherhood of Teamsters opened their 28th International Convention today with plenty of noise and a new resolve to stand up for the American Dream. Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa announced the Teamsters had organized 135,000 new members in the past five years since their last convention – more than any other labor union in North America. Hours later, he announced that more than 3,000 Republic Airways pilots had just voted to join or remain with the Teamsters by a margin of 2-to-1.
“This is how we fight back – we organize,” Hoffa said.
Teamsters International General Secretary-Treasurer Tom Keegel also set the tone early in the day with a vow: “There’s no way they’re going to bust us or take us down because it ain’t gonna happen.”"
You don't think that the IBT AD backed out on their council structure with FAPA because it might hurt Hoffa's re-election, do you?
Integrity?
Zoo
Proud FAPA Member
I get the impression that you think FAPA has an integrity problem. Interesting.
Do you know anything about similar representation disputes involving the IBT? How about the business plan at RAH?
Let me share a few with you, hopefully you will be able to notice the difference between the way the IBT has handled this in the past and how they are handling this issue today with FAPA.
When Polar and Atlas merged, there was a representation dispute. The IBT prevailed over ALPA and a transition structure was formed.
The Polar pilots administrated the Polar contract. The Atlas pilots administrated the Atlas contract. This structure lasted until an amalgamated CBA was negotiated. Both groups reported to the Local 1224. The local 1224 was run by a majority of Abex pilots, a relative neutral party.
This same exact structure was presented to the IBT Airline Division by FAPA.
FAPA would administrate the FAPA CBA. Local 357 would administrate their CBA. This joint structure would operate until contract amalgamation. Both groups would be IBT on day one. The FAPA pilots would pay IBT dues and be IBT members. The IBT Airline Division was interested enough to bring in the attorneys from both sides to discuss the concept in greater detail. Unfortunately, the AD spoke with RH and WH at RAH and learned that RAH had every intention of spinning off Frontier.
If FAPA was designated at the bargaining agent at Frontier and Frontier was sold, the IBT would lose their newly minted IBT members.
The IBT doesn't like losing members, and they like representation elections even less. The IBT Airline Division decided that the council structure that worked so well at Polar/Atlas was not good enough for Frontier pilots because they didn't want to have to start over from scratch again if Frontier was sold.
Integrity? The IBT will argue any side of the case, as long as it favors the IBT.
How about something closer to home. Lets chat about how the IBT handled the Midwest Flight Attendants when RAH purchased Midwest Airlines.
The IBT's attorney, William Wilder (Local 357's attorney as well) argued that the purchase of Midwest was not a covered transaction under A-M. Wilder claimed that Midwest was not an "air carrier", nor was RAH for that matter. If the purchase was not a covered transaction under A-M, LPP's 3 and 13 do not apply and the Midwest FA's are SOL.
You see, the IBT doesn't want what is best for labor. The IBT wants what is best for the IBT, regardless of the cost. No matter how many times they wave their "trade union" flag, their actions speak much louder than their empty words. The Midwest FA's should have been welcomed with open arms, or at the very least been allowed to negotiate, mediate and arbitrate. Unfortunately, it was too big of a risk for the native RAH FA's when you consider the relative seniority of the Midwest FA's. The IBT left them out to dry in an effort to protect the current IBT members. The hypocrisy reached EPIC proportions recently when the IBT filed a new representation dispute for the craft and class of FA's at RAH. They intentionally did not include Frontier FA's this time, because the Frontier FA's are now represented by the AFA. The IBT knows they will lose against the AFA so they plan on increasing their numbers with the most recent representation dispute. Once they prevail unopposed they will submit yet another filing, this time including the Frontier AFA flight attendants. Unfortunately the AFA will be wildly outnumbered and we know the eventual outcome.
Integrity? Throw the Midwest FA's under the bus. Make them start over as new hires. Pick and choose your representation dispute in an effort to guarantee the result by majority rule. The IBT way.
How about the Midwest pilots? The IBT intentionally excluded the Midwest pilots from the recent representation dispute. Their attorney, William Wilder, claimed that the Midwest certificate no longer existed therefor the Midwest pilots no longer existed. The IBT wanted the single transportation system to include Republic, Chautauqa, Shuttle, Lynx, and Frontier. They wanted to leave the senior Midwest pilots on the street. All of this information is in the public domain, go read the IBT filing and read the paragraph from Wilder explaining why the Midwest pilots should be excluded.
Integrity? Trade Unionism?
How about we skip to the most important issue. Money.
The IBT wants to raid FAPA's contingency fund. Even though the Abex pilots (IBT) were allowed to put their funds in a lock box that no other IBT pilot could access, FAPA's funds must become the IBT's funds.
Integrity? Why does the IBT change their argument and strategy so often? The definition of integrity is as follows...
adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
The IBT will not adhere to any principle other than the path that serves the IBT, at any cost.
ALPA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.
AFA jobs lost. Who cares, the IBT beneifts.
FAPA money lost. Who cares, the IBT benefits.
If the IBT benefits, than all bets/morals/principles are off.
One separate but related note, Mr. Ichiro. You mentioned the "IBT scope" as if it is superior to the other CBA's involved. The FAPA CBA is still in effect, and will remain in effect until it is amended by the majority of the membership. The IBT scope does not trump our CBA. The IBT scope does not trump the FAPA BoD's responsibility of Fair Representation to the FAPA membership. There is a phrase that the Local 357 will learn in the near future....
""Majority opposition does not defeat the duty of fair representation; the duty exists to restrain the majority.""
We are all IBT today, but that does not diminish the IBT's DUTY to administrate the FAPA CBA. They wanted it, they got it.
Finally, the honorable Mr. Hoffa is up for re-election as we read this post.
What did Mr. Hoffa OPEN his campaign with at the IBT convention yesterday....
"The International Brotherhood of Teamsters opened their 28th International Convention today with plenty of noise and a new resolve to stand up for the American Dream. Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa announced the Teamsters had organized 135,000 new members in the past five years since their last convention – more than any other labor union in North America. Hours later, he announced that more than 3,000 Republic Airways pilots had just voted to join or remain with the Teamsters by a margin of 2-to-1.
“This is how we fight back – we organize,” Hoffa said.
Teamsters International General Secretary-Treasurer Tom Keegel also set the tone early in the day with a vow: “There’s no way they’re going to bust us or take us down because it ain’t gonna happen.”"
You don't think that the IBT AD backed out on their council structure with FAPA because it might hurt Hoffa's re-election, do you?
Integrity?
Zoo
Proud FAPA Member
Learn how to say more with less, dude.
Carl
06-29-2011 | 04:32 PM
#116
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Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
Well Ichi, you can bite me you delta weenie. Since hiring at delta had nothing to do with actual skill or experience, I guess that makes you the scab. You took a job you weren't qualified for. As far as RAH, not gonna happen unless the idiots do strike then they'll learn what payback really means. P.S. Gannon is an idiot.
Step away from the crack pipe dude.
Carl
06-29-2011 | 04:37 PM
#117
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl, take some time away from APC and google "unsecured creditors committee". You apparently have a ton of free time, why don't you log onto the EPIC (oh the irony) BK website and read the docket related to the F9 auction.
You do realize that labor had NO say in the auction, don't you?
How about UBS and their $300 MM claim?
Credit Suisse?
Did FAPA also "say no" to the Perseus deal? You don't know what the perseus deal is, do you?
How about "group DIP I". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what Group DIP I is, do you?
How about "group DIP II". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what group DIP II is, do you?
I will make it easy on you. Try and learn about one of the three financial transactions listed above and identify when FAPA had their chance to say "yes" or "no". Good luck.
Keep typing though. Keep typing....
You do realize that labor had NO say in the auction, don't you?
How about UBS and their $300 MM claim?
Credit Suisse?
Did FAPA also "say no" to the Perseus deal? You don't know what the perseus deal is, do you?
How about "group DIP I". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what Group DIP I is, do you?
How about "group DIP II". Did FAPA approve that? You don't know what group DIP II is, do you?
I will make it easy on you. Try and learn about one of the three financial transactions listed above and identify when FAPA had their chance to say "yes" or "no". Good luck.
Keep typing though. Keep typing....
Carl
06-29-2011 | 05:32 PM
#118
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 688
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How Ritalin Boosts Cognition - Pharmacology - an eLab Article at Scientist Live
06-29-2011 | 05:52 PM
#119
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Yes Zoo, I don't know what your trying to accomplish, reasoning with these kids. Maybe you ought to knock it off go drink a beer and grow a pair. Evidently you feel some compulsion to speak for all of the Frontier pilots,,,you don't. Basically this was legitimized theft and don't sweat Ichi, he's not really a delta pilot. But you could get off of your knees because it's too late to beg.
06-29-2011 | 06:13 PM
#120
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From: 747-400 Captain
My most sincere apologies Carl. This site should help your issue....
How Ritalin Boosts Cognition - Pharmacology - an eLab Article at Scientist Live
How Ritalin Boosts Cognition - Pharmacology - an eLab Article at Scientist Live
Carl
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