Jetblue and ALPA election
07-03-2011 | 06:22 AM
#32
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Joined: Oct 2009
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I didn't say we don't need a union...I said we don't need ALPA as a union. I will fully support an in house union. I know that was tried several years ago and didn't pass. However, these are different times and I believe this time, an in house union would pass with a large majority. Since everyone likes to look at SWA as an example, look what they have achieved with there in house union. They have far better work rules, pay, productivity, and working relationships than any other ALPA, APA, Teamsters Union Airline.
For what it's worth, I have seen in-house union representation (was a union rep. there, for a while) and have worked for 4 ALPA carriers. I would recommend a national union based on my experiences.
While ALPA has it's shortcomings and has often been out manuevered, I suspect their defeats have been more influenced by overall changes in attitudes toward labor and the filling of judcial vacancies by ideologically anti-labor/pro-corporation judges.
What I observed at the inhouse union airline was that things worked reasonably well for the first 5 or 6 years. We were then involved with a buyout by a company set up by senior management who at the same time brokered a deal to spin off our 121 aircraft and downsize to our original 19 pax part 135 commuter airline. At the same time they basically ignored our contract and previous good working relations. It took about 2 months for us to realize that our in house union was broke and we could not afford to fight the company on every grevience. We had to choose our battles, which were reduced to very few.
The moral of the story: if your management chooses to aggressively screw the contract at an in house union, they can bankrupt the union financially.(legal representation is very expensive). You also lose out on decades of experience that a national union has regarding contracts and medical advice for members plus much deeper pockets.
07-03-2011 | 06:35 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Passed out in my hammock
The legislation states several times that the two groups being merged have to be represented "collectively." Although just semantics we at jetblue are not represented "collectively", in fact the company sees us as 2300 independent contractors. They are in court right now on another matter specifically stating that we are not represented "collectively." So what happens if a merger happens. Well with out ALPA some here at jetblue would say we are covered by McCaskill-Bond right? Then the other company's union lawyer will say, "Hey your own company is in court arguing you aren't represented "collectively" so McCaskill-Bond doesn't apply. Off to arbitration it goes and each JB pilot will have to come up with money on their own to hire a Lawyer and fight for a fair integration. That's not a risk I am willing to take. An independent union would be nice but it was voted down last time, it would be very costly to start, and for every Southwest success story there is a FedEx or Airtran whose in house unions were voted out fairly quickly. BTW SWAPA was almost fully funded by SWA management when it was founded, does anyone think that JetBlue's management would do the same?
All this is IF a merger might happen. But IF I get in a car accident I have insurance, IF I get sick I have Insurance. I simply look at my yes vote as insurance on my future.
All this is IF a merger might happen. But IF I get in a car accident I have insurance, IF I get sick I have Insurance. I simply look at my yes vote as insurance on my future.
07-03-2011 | 07:08 AM
#34
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For any of you that have been at Jetblue for several years, do you remember receiving a DHL package which contained your new working agreement? Wouldn't it be nice to have a say in your agreement rather than having powerless committees? How those stock options working out for you?
ALPA gets a bad rap, and many times they deserve it. But they do have more resources than an independent union. Something to think about, after all, it's your decision and you have to live with it....
ALPA gets a bad rap, and many times they deserve it. But they do have more resources than an independent union. Something to think about, after all, it's your decision and you have to live with it....
07-03-2011 | 07:38 AM
#36
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For any of you that have been at Jetblue for several years, do you remember receiving a DHL package which contained your new working agreement? Wouldn't it be nice to have a say in your agreement rather than having powerless committees? How those stock options working out for you?
ALPA gets a bad rap, and many times they deserve it. But they do have more resources than an independent union. Something to think about, after all, it's your decision and you have to live with it....
ALPA gets a bad rap, and many times they deserve it. But they do have more resources than an independent union. Something to think about, after all, it's your decision and you have to live with it....
ALPA has in fact, become pointless for collective bargaining. They should stick to the role of a safety advocate as they offer nothing for pilots to better themselves (and even attempt to stiff their lower-end workers). With grotesquely bloated salaries, perks and bennies for the upper staff, they're nothing more then an aviation Enron.
07-03-2011 | 08:31 AM
#37
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Where would an independent union's resources come from?
It's not a conspiracy, it is obvious that the money is collected out of paychecks in the form of dues. I pay just under 2%, and while I certainly don't agree with everything ALPA does, I find it a worthwhile expenditure.
I'd prefer a CBA, not a working agreement. Jetblue can and HAS altered that agreement when they feel the need to do so.
It's not a conspiracy, it is obvious that the money is collected out of paychecks in the form of dues. I pay just under 2%, and while I certainly don't agree with everything ALPA does, I find it a worthwhile expenditure.
I'd prefer a CBA, not a working agreement. Jetblue can and HAS altered that agreement when they feel the need to do so.
07-03-2011 | 08:37 AM
#38
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Even with a working agreement vs a CBA, they are still far ahead of many ALPA carriers, even before the 1.97% ALPA TAX is considered.
07-03-2011 | 08:37 AM
#39
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Those "resources" have proven completely worthless for virtually all the other ALPA carriers I know of. Ask pilots from TWA and Midwest how ALPA's resources worked for them.
ALPA has in fact, become pointless for collective bargaining. They should stick to the role of a safety advocate as they offer nothing for pilots to better themselves (and even attempt to stiff their lower-end workers). With grotesquely bloated salaries, perks and bennies for the upper staff, they're nothing more then an aviation Enron.
ALPA has in fact, become pointless for collective bargaining. They should stick to the role of a safety advocate as they offer nothing for pilots to better themselves (and even attempt to stiff their lower-end workers). With grotesquely bloated salaries, perks and bennies for the upper staff, they're nothing more then an aviation Enron.
Sorry I don't know what ALPA was supposed to do for Midwest. Would an independent union have helped?
Would you rather pay low end workers 100K/year? Aren't they supposed to keep salaries (that we all pay) in check?
Again, I am no huge fan of ALPA. I do see them as the best alternative.
07-03-2011 | 08:41 AM
#40
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I don't think so. I don't recall the pay raise... Were you working there when they decided to let the pilots know of the agreement changes and pay rates for the EMB 190? I think it was 2004 or so?
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