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Airhoss 03-05-2018 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by untied (Post 2543514)
How much are we paying PI's at TK?

Aren't some guys making $230,000 or more?

What is the "industry standard" pay for a simulator instructor?

I like the current guys, but I can see why the company might get frustrated paying WAY over market value.

Like I said for the unwashed masses TK is an easy target.

guppie 03-05-2018 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by untied (Post 2543514)
How much are we paying PI's at TK?

Aren't some guys making $230,000 or more?

What is the "industry standard" pay for a simulator instructor?

I like the current guys, but I can see why the company might get frustrated paying WAY over market value.

The company was able to train scabs in '85. It is now contractual that all PIs must be on the seniority list. We would be fools to even discuss the matter.

Scoop 03-05-2018 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by LifeNtheFstLne (Post 2542957)
Will be curious to see how this is rebuffed. Hard to make the business case given what AA and DAL do (and they put out a good, safe product). That being said, I think we all prefer being trained by people that may actually have to fly with us. Perhaps they could actually implement the instructor job share provisions first as a compromise. Would certainly save money and still adjust for our migrant worker style seasonal flying.


Not sure about AMR but at DAL we do have a small cadre of non seniority list instructors. Most but not all are retired DAL Pilots, a few come from other assorted backgrounds. They are limited in what events they can instruct as many syllabus events require a seniority list instructor.

Scoop

Grumble 03-05-2018 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by Ni hao (Post 2543551)
$230K I hear more like $350K ++

Rather than bloviate, read the contract it’s in there. It’s certainly not 350 for a PI.

Sunvox 03-05-2018 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 2543629)
Rather than bloviate, read the contract it’s in there. It’s certainly not 350 for a PI.

Bloviate - that made me snort wine out my nose, but I admit I had to look it up . . .

blo·vi·ate
[ˈblōvēˌāt]
VERB
US
informal
talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.

cadetdrivr 03-05-2018 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 2543618)
Not sure about AMR but at DAL we do have a small cadre of non seniority list instructors. Most but not all are retired DAL Pilots, a few come from other assorted backgrounds. They are limited in what events they can instruct as many syllabus events require a seniority list instructor.

Scoop

FWIW, the DGS instructors at DAL can’t do checking events (LOEs), evaluations (MVs), or what are essentially “progress” checks (usually the last lesson in a series) required before a checking or evaluation event during transition courses.

That leaves a WHOLE lot of sims they can do during CQ and transition training.

Glenntilton 03-05-2018 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 2543629)
Rather than bloviate, read the contract it’s in there. It’s certainly not 350 for a PI.

Not LUAL, but LCAL have some grandfathered earning Captain pay rates.

baseball 03-05-2018 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 2543090)
I hope you’re right. My TK job is neither here nor there. Having worked at two other major airlines that had retired guys as instructors I have to say I think ours is a better system.

We intentionally negotiated a "ralph rena" clause to get the retired guys out of the training dept. It was done so with kid gloves in such a way to prevent any sort of age related litigation. We can't discriminate against older/retired people. We need to simply keep the part 121 requirements and medical requirements in place.

Grumble 03-06-2018 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by Glenntilton (Post 2543684)
Not LUAL, but LCAL have some grandfathered earning Captain pay rates.

So there are seniority list pilots that the contract doesn't apply to? Please elaborate.

guppie 03-06-2018 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 2544088)
So there are seniority list pilots that the contract doesn't apply to? Please elaborate.

Glenn is correct. Sort of. There are LCAL instructors that held Captain positions and they are grandfathered at Captain pay. (not limited to 9th year 777 FO pay). But what ol' Glenn is incorrect about is that through a grievance, SOME LUAL instructors who held line Captain positions before becoming instructors ALSO get Captain pay as instructors. Kind of a goose/gander, me too thing.


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