You mean how the UAL MEC was trying to negotiate parity pay rates for the FAL pilots but UAL mgt wanted to drag out parity til the mid 90's? Or do you mean how PEX was desperate for cash, FAL was losing $10 mil/mo, and UAL mgt had both money and motive?

Linking the UAL mec to mgt's motives produce a neat narrative for your bias. The United pilot's did not want to introduce a B scale on the property and proposed a Pan Am style integration. UAL mgt refused to budge on 6 year parity. UAL mgt's primary goals were the strengthening of it's Denver hub and reduction of low cost competition across the system. Managers rarely if ever care about the human costs and the union doesn't own the keys to the company.

It's odd how scabs always have a justification for what they did. From "ALPA caused Braniff to go under", "United screwed me in 19XX", or "that wasn't a legal strike", the excuses continue. I guess we can add another to that list.

 

Your thinly veiled and childish inference I'm a scab because of my opinion and comment is ignorant but completely typical. I saw first hand the damage and destruction United did to my family back then. You call it bias I call it fact.

Your half truth in portrayal of the management side of the financial equation in this fiasco still does not give the UAL MEC a pass. At the end of the day they were willing to bury their Frontier ALPA brothers for the gates and equipment. Of course revisionist history is easier to explain and cover the sins of the past. Again typical and talk about transference of blame.

I guess you don't remember (or have knowledge of) the infamous "code a phone" message by Ron K when the deal fell apart? At least the PEX transaction offered them jobs which is far and above what the UAL MEC ultimately had in mind.

There was no way the factions within council 33 were going to tolerate all those senior Frontier pilots on the property in Denver, let alone system wide. The entire contract parity argument was an excuse for saving face.

 

Looking for a scapegoat is far easier then finding the truth. Never called you a scab but identified a sentiment that is a prelude to a scabbing excuse.

Bias? Your screen name says it all.

 

Im no moderator but it’s annoying to turn a JFK (or any other) thread into scab thread. Nobody’s falling for it so moving on...
JFK:
Kirby has now said 1) He wants back into JFK 2) There’s No organic way to get there
So where’s that put us? I get tired of answering the question, “Why doesn’t United fly out of JFK?!”
If they were intent on ‘Winning NY’, they’d probably need to serve JFK. Although, we don’t serve MDW or HOU or OAK. So who knows.

 

Continental used to serve all three- I’m pretty sure UAL did too, just further reinforcement of what a complete, inept, piece of .... Smisek was.

 

Kirby, read United, want a lot of things but how much blood are they willing to part with to get it? My guess is not a lot. Winning isn't it's all cracked up to be. It costs a lot of money to be number 1. #makeUnitedgreatagain

The southeast is a perfect example. Everyone wants to know why don't we increase service in the southeastern U.S. The answer among many is Delta, and Amr to a degree, would make it extremely costly.

Now if we had some strength to leverage...

 

My apologies for the prior thread drift but certain things need to be called out.

 

The other option is UAL doesn’t re-enter JFK. Kirby wants back in but doesn’t see an organic option.

I want a unicorn, but I’m not going to buy a donkey and bolt a horn on it. Sometimes a wish list is just that.

 

Scapegoat? You really are an arrogant prick. The scapegoat the brotherhood used was the B scale which management backed down on in the 11th hour. It boiled down to one thing only and that was the UAL MEC did not want the pilots.

Do you know the origins of how we got the name Brainsurgeon's? Notice I said "we"?

Damn right things need to be called out about UAL skeletons. I just found the irony of prior comments to be comical and at the same time offensive given my Frontier family history.

 

On August 28, 1986 the UAL MEC proposed arbitration with UAL Mgt to solve the pay issue. This attempt was made after a presentation by Captain Walker, Chairman of the Frontier pilots, and Don Osmundson, President of the Frontier labor coalition. The UAL MEC agreed to bring the FAL pilots on the property at their current rates and allow a neutral arbitrator to decide the final pay outcome. UAL Mgt refused.

I'm done hijacking this thread and discussing this. I really feel sorry for your bitterness. Trust me, you're better off to let it go.