Originally Posted by mmm123

Last email I got said the lec's had been briefed and call them, I did didn't sound like significant progress. The one before that showed the areas still open, yes the bigger stuff. It was supposed to be done the end of 2018 if I remember and many on here seemed to think it would be done. April 9th I don't see it.

Pick up all you want at what % you would like, I just think I would rather start letting them know how we feel. But hey maybe that's just how I feel.

Since you seem to indicate there is progress do you have an official email or posting you can quote?

Originally Posted by oldmako

The current contract is loaded with bogus loopholes and concessionary gimmies. None of which were necessary and all of which were agreed to just to get a deal done in exchange for an acceptable hourly rate. We were negotiating in extremis. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to plug the loopholes when the opportunities arrive. Oh wait, one already did. We gave Smisek a pile of money while he trashed the airline simply to stop the Blue vs Black whip-sawing. Now, SK is trying to poop-chute your contract with more RJ flying and guys are willing to play nice as they speculate on their PS check 6 months in advance.

Originally Posted by Andy

Last point first. Like everyone else here, I have zero information on how negotiations are proceeding. Those that know details aren't talking.

As for expecting a new contract on the amenable date, that was unrealistic expectations - IIRC, hinted at by both the union and the company.

I can't think of any airline contract since 9/11 that was done on the amenable date. If anyone can cite such a case, I'm all ears.
Negotiations for full contracts tend to run a couple of years beyond the amenable date. Late 2020 is what people should be expecting on this type of thing.

As for any lack of progress, that tells me that all of the light lifting is done and now the two sides are negotiating the more contentious issues. As far as I know, that's always been the pattern for full blown contract negotiations.

You're not happy. I get it. I also get that oldmako is never happy.

Originally Posted by mmm123

Most people I have heard from on the line seemed to think it would it would happen early I guess we don't hang with the same folks.

Originally Posted by mmm123

If you have zero info you must not read your emails.

Originally Posted by mmm123

My original comments had nothing to do with happy or not they had to do with not sending the company a message. Do what you want.

Originally Posted by mmm123

Most people I have heard from on the line seemed to think it would it would happen early I guess we don't hang with the same folks.

If you have zero info you must not read your emails.

As far as not happy, sorry you have the wrong guy, I am happy most of the time. My original comments had nothing to do with happy or not they had to do with not sending the company a message. Do what you want.

Originally Posted by oldmako

I've been listening to your type of tripe for over 30 years. My point remains unchanged. Sadly, most pilots are so enamored with the fact that they have cool jobs that they willingly sell their services on the cheap. In my first decade, I was one of them. But my tenure and experiences have changed my tune. There is no chip on my shoulder, only lessons learned.

Adjusted for inflation, we are in arrears of our peers' earnings despite that fact that we no longer have a pension. That you and others feel that this is okay means nothing to me. Yes, it's a great job. That's precisely why I busted my a$$ to get it. But that doesn't mean that we should do it at a discount. Cool factor doesn't pay bills nor fund retirements. Tweaks won't cut it. Significant improvements will be a good start.

The current contract is loaded with bogus loopholes and concessionary gimmies. None of which were necessary and all of which were agreed to just to get a deal done in exchange for an acceptable hourly rate. We were negotiating in extremis. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to plug the loopholes when the opportunities arrive. Oh wait, one already did. We gave Smisek a pile of money while he trashed the airline simply to stop the Blue vs Black whip-sawing. Now, SK is trying to poop-chute your contract with more RJ flying and guys are willing to play nice as they speculate on their PS check 6 months in advance.

Carry on Marvins. And when we get that full retro check, I'll eat mine.

Originally Posted by Andy

They expected a full contract to be negotiated and put to a vote shortly after the amenable date????? What kind of contract did they expect would result from a rapid negotiation?



I get a lot of emails. I don't read them all and I don't waste my time sorting through tons of chaff to find a small kernel of wheat. If there were earth-shattering information out there, it'd be posted here. It's all quiet here except for the normal complaints.



Not picking up a trip that another guy's trying to drop (but will be unable to drop due to coverage) is sending the company a message? What message would I be sending the company? This pickup/drop has zero impact on the company one way or the other. It does, however, make a fellow pilot happier that he's able to drop the trip.
The trips they were picking up were not being dropped by another pilot, as in potential drop, they were open flying. But like I said do what you want.
Edit: I wasted some time going through my emails on this subject. The last one I found was dated March 7 and shows exactly what I expected - normal progress on negotiations.

Originally Posted by Itsajob

The company wanted to open early and made a bunch of talk about a seamless transition hoping to get scope relief. If we had caved on scope I知 sure those that survived the big outsourcing would have a much better hourly rate today. Once they found out that scope isn稚 for sale this just turned into the standard airline 2+ year negotiation. Hopefully most of us have been through this enough times not to have expected anything to be different. I personally never met anyone who honestly expected things to be different. They may have been cautiously optimistic, but they have seen this rodeo before. This is why I pay a union. My elected representatives go beat this horse while I enjoy my life. When we get a TA, I値l read it and then vote.

Originally Posted by Itsajob

The company wanted to open early and made a bunch of talk about a seamless transition hoping to get scope relief.

Originally Posted by baseball

Another point to consider......The company wanted to open early so they could put forth the "perception" that they were the good guy. The benevolent, caring, kind, and considerate boy scout just helping little ole ladies across the street.

The company certainly wanted scope relief, but they knew that wasn't going to happen. it was obvious. Their plan was to run the act. Just kick the can and put forth the illusion that they are bargaining in good faith.

These aren't the contractural provisions you are looking for. Just another jedi mind trick to get the pilots and the public thinking that management is just a bunch of nice guys trying to do good.

30 percent of the stock price is labor stability. They want peace and quiet in the summer, thanksgiving, and Christmas holiday travel seasons. A great way to keep the peace is to "negotiate." spinning the wheels and doing nothing is still "negotiating."