2018 PS Wag
10-17-2018, 11:06 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Originally Posted by Sunvox
Didn't look hard enough.
Found it on the 8k. $252 mil in profit sharing so far for 2018 as compared to $304 mil at the end of Q3 last year. Down $52 mil.
page 9 here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...018erex991.htm
Delta on the other hand is up $81 mil from $314 to $395 mil. What the heck??? I totally don't understand how we grow revenue and keep costs inline and increase profit, but our PS goes down while Delta grows rev less, has more cost increase, and sees PS go up.
Found it on the 8k. $252 mil in profit sharing so far for 2018 as compared to $304 mil at the end of Q3 last year. Down $52 mil.
page 9 here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...018erex991.htm
Delta on the other hand is up $81 mil from $314 to $395 mil. What the heck??? I totally don't understand how we grow revenue and keep costs inline and increase profit, but our PS goes down while Delta grows rev less, has more cost increase, and sees PS go up.
My recollection is that UA was really pressuring other work groups to adjust their percentage down in recent negotiations. Not sure if they were successful with that and if those changes have gone into effect, but if so, it would explain the profit sharing set aside not moving in lock step with the earnings.
10-17-2018, 11:07 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
Originally Posted by O2pilot
So yes, they get more profit sharing, but we do twice as much WB flying, since 49% of their WB international flying is sent to their JV partners per their own pilot contract! I wouldn’t give up 2,000 WB jobs for another $20k in profit sharing. Its not worth it. Those jobs pay much more than $20k a year plus the movement they create.
I know pilots tend to only look at the difference and make a big deal about it, but I’d rather be here than there, all other things being equal. Especially with 23 787s coming in the next 2 years plus everything else being delivered.
I know pilots tend to only look at the difference and make a big deal about it, but I’d rather be here than there, all other things being equal. Especially with 23 787s coming in the next 2 years plus everything else being delivered.
Let me remind you that delta has 2 captains on the WBs
We have more but they have slightly more captains
As far as their payroll been 500 mil less is because they utilize their pilots better.
Let’s compare fair
10-17-2018, 11:29 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Originally Posted by Sniper66
Let me remind you that delta has 2 captains on the WBs
We have more but they have slightly more captains
Let’s compare fair
We have more but they have slightly more captains
Let’s compare fair
They do 2 Capt and 2 FOs on double augmented legs, we only do so on over 16 hour flights.
So, while a good percentage of their flights on the 777 and 350 are over 12 hours, it certainly is not all, so some portion of the staffing model is identical.
Certainly we at UA would love to have 2 + 2, on our flights over 12, but I definitely would not trade WB fleets to get it!!!!!!
Last edited by GoCats67; 10-17-2018 at 11:46 AM.
10-17-2018, 12:39 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Delta has some built in advantages, that we do not have. Their JV language is much more advantageous relative to us, for profitability. Yes, they have more Captains to airplane ratio, but we have many more wide body airplanes than they do. Obviously their contract language with regard to profit sharing is better than ours based on their business plan. But probably the biggest advantage that they have, has nothing to do with their pilots. They only have two unionized work groups. Their pilots and dispatchers. That’s it!!!
All of which I would not trade for relaxation of scope. I’m ok with more wide bodies and less profit sharing.
All of which I would not trade for relaxation of scope. I’m ok with more wide bodies and less profit sharing.
10-17-2018, 12:48 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by DashTrash
Delta has some built in advantages, that we do not have. Their JV language is much more advantageous relative to us, for profitability. Yes, they have more Captains to airplane ratio, but we have many more wide body airplanes than they do. Obviously their contract language with regard to profit sharing is better than ours based on their business plan. But probably the biggest advantage that they have, has nothing to do with their pilots. They only have two unionized work groups. Their pilots and dispatchers. That’s it!!!
All of which I would not trade for relaxation of scope. I’m ok with more wide bodies and less profit sharing.
All of which I would not trade for relaxation of scope. I’m ok with more wide bodies and less profit sharing.
10-17-2018, 12:59 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by Sniper66
Let me remind you that delta has 2 captains on the WBs
We have more but they have slightly more captains
As far as their payroll been 500 mil less is because they utilize their pilots better.
Let’s compare fair
We have more but they have slightly more captains
As far as their payroll been 500 mil less is because they utilize their pilots better.
Let’s compare fair
10-17-2018, 03:13 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: B-737 Captain
Posts: 649
Originally Posted by IHateYou
Bingo!
Also, ISIS was daily news murdering anyone insight. They are essentially gone now. Obama handled them well ��. Trump’s varsity team came in and destroyed that JV team in less than a year. Obama couldn’t touch them in 8 years. Unemployment at all time low in 50 years, 401k’s rocketing, paychecks higher than they have been. Yeah...Obama. ��
Also, ISIS was daily news murdering anyone insight. They are essentially gone now. Obama handled them well ��. Trump’s varsity team came in and destroyed that JV team in less than a year. Obama couldn’t touch them in 8 years. Unemployment at all time low in 50 years, 401k’s rocketing, paychecks higher than they have been. Yeah...Obama. ��
10-17-2018, 03:14 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by Grumble
A new hire at UAL today vs a DAL anew hire... the DAL pilot will need that PS advantage to make up for the career earnings that will suffer do to their JV outsourcing and lack of wide bodies.
10-17-2018, 03:24 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by DashTrash
Not to mention the lack of pay and increase in expenses for their first year. Since they get new hire pay until off of IOE and they have to buy their first uniforms. I don’t think that they still have to buy housing while in airplane training.
93 hours, plus $50/day in per diem, plus 16% PRAP, plus hotel, plus positive space to/from home on days off, uniforms paid for, etc. DAL really screws their new guys on that end.
You can thank UALALPA and the pilot group for looking out for the half wingers. That right there should speak volumes.
10-17-2018, 03:32 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by Grumble
Valid point. A UAL newhire takes a pay cut when they finish IOE and are released to the line.
93 hours, plus $50/day in per diem, plus 16% PRAP, plus hotel, plus positive space to/from home on days off, uniforms paid for, etc. DAL really screws their new guys on that end.
You can thank UALALPA and the pilot group for looking out for the half wingers. That right there should speak volumes.
93 hours, plus $50/day in per diem, plus 16% PRAP, plus hotel, plus positive space to/from home on days off, uniforms paid for, etc. DAL really screws their new guys on that end.
You can thank UALALPA and the pilot group for looking out for the half wingers. That right there should speak volumes.
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