Honestly, I didn't think any mainline pilot today would ever consider giving an inch on Scope, but I must admit I was shocked when my last FO, a Zoomie with a 20 year career and retired Lieutenant Colonel, said that he thinks we could give on Scope for added pay so long as the company promised to give us the jobs back in the next downturn. Obviously, I offered an alternative view, but I don't think he was convinced.

Anyways, I was just surprised to find anyone that would give on Scope. I hope there aren't many more like THAT

 

I’d say “beat him senseless”....but too late.

 

After "Zoomie" nothing you said could have surprised me.

 

Agreed, company men until the get screwed a couple times.

 

All-I don’t post much but I am a new hire (3yrs in property) and retired mil as well. I can say, from my point of view only, that I have NOT met another new hire who has said anything similar. It’s a big company and I realize the pool size I’m exposed to isn’t as large as some of yours may be. I also want to state that new hires who spent their career in the mil are not speaking from a library of experience in the 121 world and certainly not within UAL to be certain. Rather than blow our stacks at them realize the breadth of experience they come from and put on your education hat. Teach rather than flame and try and show why, from your experience, that view is unwise! Not everyone is like me and is able to learn from their peers experience. Some always seem to need the pain of personal suffering for things to take hold. We all tend to think our position is infallible and likely there will be some out there who will fire shots across my bow for this. Just as I don’t think all who grew up in the 121 world act a certain way please know that is also true of ex mil pilots. From my standpoint-not an inch will be given. I believe most new hires agree.

 

I don't even have words for this. I'm not a Zoomie, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express (USAFR --> 19 YOS) last night...

We have to show people like him compassion, and we must educate them. I was fortunate to have mentors educate me on the airline business. I read every book that was suggested to me. People like him are innocently ignorant; they're smart, but they've been insulated from the business cycle since they were 18. For the first time in his adult life (sans his retirement check), his paycheck isn't a foregone conclusion. I know this because I was one of these people (military).

In this business, all compensation and QOL gains can be eviscerated in a nanosecond. No give on scope, period. Not now. Not ever.

 

what is a "zoomie"? fighter guy is my wag

 

Academy grad

 

Honestly, and I’m not trying to speak negatively of anyone who has served our country, but Airline Union ideals conflicts with military ideals. Our Military is mission oriented. Airline pilots are mission oriented if the mission is safe and contractual. The Military has no contractual obligations. This is where we need to educate our new hires, so that they may learn and change their behavior.

 

He’ll figure it out. You might have to put on your mentor pants. Be a game-changer.